Hebrew names

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Paul Frommer's
Language Workbook

[Coyote]

I personally would transliterate the Hebrew names and be prepared to see some drift occur (ie, "Jacob" is originally "Yakov", since there is no "J" in Hebrew, and the "B" and "V" are the same letter in Hebrew but with a dot to make the distinction between them). You could add the footnote for the, um, "Director's Cut" so to speak, so that the truly scholarly Na'vi could see the origins of the word, but for the lay person it would be a distraction (or even an annoyance).

Obviously if you're doing a Bible translation for personal fun, to see what it would take, it is moot-- it is well-known enough across cultures that no explanations are needed. On the other hand, if you're doing this for a theoretical translation to present to actual Na'vi for an "in-universe" concept for "witnessing" to them, it's much harder because the cultural, sociological, and even geographical references aren't there. You'd have to spend as much time just transmitting the basic concept as the words themselves, which is a hurdle that would not have to be crossed for a human audience.

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

Obviously if you're doing a Bible translation for personal fun, to see what it would take, it is moot-- it is well-known enough across cultures that no explanations are needed. On the other hand, if you're doing this for a theoretical translation to present to actual Na'vi for an "in-universe" concept for "witnessing" to them, it's much harder because the cultural, sociological, and even geographical references aren't there. You'd have to spend as much time just transmitting the basic concept as the words themselves, which is a hurdle that would not have to be crossed for a human audience.

My primary goal is a Na'vi bible one can use for personal devotion (for every one, not just me). I tend to use the more literal, scholarly English translations (NAS for instance) for my devotions, so footnotes with that kind of information are useful. In general, I think this is also the easier translation to do. Eltu Lefngap Makto, OTOH, is attempting to what you are describing here-- build a translation that can be used for witnessing to Na'vi. I think there is plenty of room for both of these kinds of translations. And comparing the differences between the two approaches makes for some interesting discussions!

[Eltu Lefngap Makto]

As far as "purpose of translation" goes, I find myself going on the same journey that the inventor of Dothraki describes in the history of conlang-ing

First, there were the philosophical language creators (guys who created languages in order to "perfect" human cognition). Next came the auxlangers: Idealists who created languages to facilitate international communication, and thereby realize world peace (this was primarily in the late 19th and early 20th century, though it's continued steadily into the 21st). After that came the solitary artists—those who created languages to embellish their fictional worlds (or created worlds where their languages could be spoken, as the case may be). Primary among them is, of course, J. R. R. Tolkien, but another big name that's oft ignored is M. A. R. Barker, whose work is just incredible. And then, with the advent of the internet, came the modern conlangers, and it's these I'd like to talk about.

I kind see the Na'vi Bible as

• a chance to think more clearly about what the Bible says (grammatically)
• a bridge to people who might not otherwise read it
• a new perspective gained through attempting recontextualization
• and a chance to participate in community.

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

Where do you think we are in this project in reference to David's progression?

Can you desctibe further what you mean by 'recontextulaization'? I think I know what you mean here, but am not sure.

[Eltu Lefngap Makto]

Where do you think we are in this project in reference to David's progression?

I think it's a journey.  Obviously, by my choice of verses and my subject lines, I enjoy rethinking words.  e.g. Without a trial form, we can leave Genesis 1:26 as 'us'.  However, we must be more clear in our thinking in Na'vi: is it God and the angels (as the Rabbis say) or is it the triune God (as many Christian say).
On the other hand, when you ask me "what's a Na'vi Bible for?", the first thing I think of is having a better lingua franca than English?  Of course, Na'vi was invented for a particular piece of art and has a certain bent and focus because of that.  I'm not the inventor and I'm not writing this off on my own, so we are the fourth type too - a community.

Can you desctibe further what you mean by 'recontextulaization'? I think I know what you mean here, but am not sure.

The world of the Na'vi is very different from our.  Good translators don't just line up parallel words, they say things the way a native speaker would.  e.g.  When Nebuchadnezzar is sent away 'from' the company of humans and relegated to the realm of animals, that would be 'from up among/tafkip' because the Omatikaya live up in trees.

[Ni-awtu]

hang on a sec, do you guys believe in Eywa as a deity?

and you say you are christians (those of you who do, I'm not talking to any others)?

[Eltu Lefngap Makto]

I am thoroughly confused by your question.  I read it, and since this is an old thread, I searched on the page for instances of 'Eywa' to see what you are talking about.  Yours is the first and only mention of those letters in that order.  When did I (or anyone) say that we believe in her as a deity?  I think within the movie, she is a very complicated lifeform, meant to parallel earth-bound ideas like Gaia, but that's a long way from what you're suggesting.

I think you better be more thoughtful with phrases like "you say you're a ..."

[Niri Te]

hang on a sec, do you guys believe in Eywa as a deity?

and you say you are christians (those of you who do, I'm not talking to any others)?

I think some of them do, I have no problem with people believing what they wish, as long as they do not try to force their beliefs on anyone else. I think that using "Eywa" to conceptualize the feminine attributes of GOD, is fine, and concerning a "Na'vi Bible", it would be a cool diversion for Judeo Christian linguistics experts to have some fun with, but the NKJV was written with such exhaustive research into the original texts in order to come up with a, as true as possible to English translation given the denominational preconditioning of the different translators, that I use it, and the Hebrew Tanakh, as well as a Greek-English trans linear Bible to do any serious studies on crucial, or controversial subjects.
Niri Te

[Ni-awtu]

Oh ok, I am really sorry, I realise that could have been offensive-that's not what I meant 
I posted really fast and didn't really check what I was saying. please forgive me.

Just reread the posts before me and I guess I misunderstood the previous posts 

and cool, thanks for clarifying that 


God bless :8

xx

[Eltu Lefngap Makto]

No problem    Sorry if I got too mad.  You weren't accusing us of "whoring after Astheroth" so I could've taken it down a notch! 

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

I wonder if Ni-Awtu read any of Eltu Lefngap Makto's translations of Genesis 1, which might lead one to wonder if some of us believe in Eywa. If that is where you got this, go back and re-read the entire thread so you know why he did that translation the way he did.

I have theorized to myself that much of Eywa resides in a server room deep underground, near where the high-tech Na'vi live. They are on the opposite side of Pandora, and stay underground, so the RDA won't spot them...

[Eltu Lefngap Makto]

Nice!    I know a lot people would be happy to hear that "god" is a sysadmin! 

[Niri Te]

 I want to see the power generation system capable of running a Hyper Computer, or "gang" of Hyper computers, and the various servos, sensors, and slaved micro computers required to pull THAT off. THEN there is the "messy" little detail of Jake's very SPIRIT being transferred to his AVATAR.  NO, for the story to be correct Eywa IS a Deity, and being a Messianic Jew, I have to believe that it is the manifestation of the feminine attributes of GOD.  There are those that say that since GOD said "let US make man in OUR image", Genesis 1:26, and "So GOD created man in HIS own image; in the image of GOD, HE created him; Male, and Female HE created them". Genesis 1:27. If that is to be taken at face value, then  GOD exhibits both gender attributes. There are people that think that only the Holy Spirit embodies the feminine attributes of GOD.  The problem that I have with THAT, is when Yeshua looks out over Jerusalem and says, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the Prophets, and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were not willing!" There may be nothing more than allegory here in those words, but, I return to my earlier quote out of Genesis 1:26 and 27.
IF  there is a feminine set of attributes that GOD possesses, then I see no problem in my thinking that Eywa in the expression of those attributes, and therefore capable of anything.
Niri Te  

[Ni-awtu]

irayo

@eltu lefngap makto, that's okay. I'm sorry 
 

I have no problem with God being bigger than I can understand.
 still, we need to be careful to 'have no other gods before [God]'- if the idea of Eywa detracts from God/G-d/yaweh/jehovah then we should not go anywhere near her.

She WAS made as part of casting for a film, ie. made up..... I think that's why I'm confused  because many people refer to her as real, just as some refer to omatikaya as our 'descendants'. but I'm sure they are just part of the film... :O

xxx

[Niri Te]

irayo

@eltu lefngap makto, that's okay. I'm sorry 
 

I have no problem with God being bigger than I can understand.
 still, we need to be careful to 'have no other gods before [God]'- if the idea of Eywa detracts from God/G-d/yaweh/jehovah then we should not go anywhere near her.

She WAS made as part of casting for a film, ie. made up..... I think that's why I'm confused  because many people refer to her as real, just as some refer to omatikaya as our 'descendants'. but I'm sure they are just part of the film... :O

xxx

  Ma Ni-awtu,
   I am not trying to delve into the reasonings of the people that made this film the way that they did, I am wondering if we don't ALL "create" an image of GOD when we read of him in the Bible, or even discuss him among ourselves.  How else can a people so seriously limited in perception, and intelligence (when compared to GOD, or even pre-fall Adam and Eve, who were still no where near GOD), even BEGIN to wrap their minds around first the concept, then the personality of GOD? Once we understand that, even if "Eywa" was created to make a Gazillion dollars, and nothing more, If some people use "her" to help them conceptualize of an all powerful deity that CAN be loving, tender and kind to "her" creations, that is a first step in getting to know the "Red Letters Only" Yeshua who exhibited those qualities in his life. THEN, and only then, they can start to try to understand the awesome, fearful, GOD of the Old Testament.
   Some other time, I will share why I think that it is a GOOD idea that most of us have taken on Na'vi names,
ta Niri Te