Arguments against AVATAR and James Cameron

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[Human No More]

Wiya, i don't have the ``ork´´  () to do a big ``respond run´´ to old posts  ! I'll just drop that strategy from now on and only respond to the things i'm most interested in responding to (If it's an old post(s), that is. If it's a new post(s), i find it relatively easy to respond to every part of every post.). However, there is one particular thing i'd like to respond to:

Since this is marginally still on topic (oy!), I have to chime in here. Survival of the fittest is one thing, but taking something by an act of war to correct a problem caused by one's self is really nothing more than a large-scale armed robbery. To me, this is the premise of Avatar and one that the philosophical detractors of Avatar should pay more attention to.

Markì

I agree with you completely on that one, ma Markì: To take something in this fashion to correct your own f**king mess just shows that you're a sore loser and can't handle failure (How many humans are good at that, really  ?). Sorry for sounding so harsh, but i think that at one point you'll have to accept defeat and just lie down and die in a ditch (figuratively speaking, of course)  .

That may well be the case, although I think that there's no point of return unless there's no longer a viable gene pool; they just need to reduce their population by 75% or so. That takes drastic measures, but trying to split the same resources between more people just prevents anyone from surviving.
Doing that improves the quality of life of everyone, and with systems in place to support a larger population, it allows humans to have an impact on less of the world with a smaller one.

[Teylar Ta Palulukankelku]

And by ``viable gene pool´´ you mean enough genetic variety in the world's population to avoid inbreeding  ?

What you're saying here is exactly why i'm skeptical to allowing people who couldn't possibly take care of themselves ever to live. Now, i'm not propagating the murder of everyone who's in a wheelchair (Plus; I believe Avatar clearly shows that not all who are in wheelchairs are helpless  .) or mentally challenged, but i think that if parents find out their baby is i.e. paralyzed even before it is born they may want to consider abortion  . For the ``life no matter what´´-mentality i think is behind the world's already too large population, i blame, first and foremost, the Abrahamitic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam), with their (IMO) over-emphasis on each individual life rather than the species as a whole. Not to say that i think caring for individual persons is a bad thing, i'm just saying that i think that this kind of thinking shouldn't lead to the prioritizing of particular individuals rather than the entire human collective. Note that in most countries were the Abrahamitic religions are not dominant (Those countries tend to have a lot of poverty per capita.), more often than not, the living conditions are so harsh for most of the population that those that cannot fend for themselves do not survive, and thus these countries aren't faced with these kinds of dilemma on whether to or not to kill off (in lack of better words) people who cannot take care of themselves since, generally, ``nature´´ does this for them, which is why i think many religious leaders here in the West put such an emphasis on the notion that everybody should be allowed to live: Since we have the resources to sustain everyone in our population.

Sorry for going a bit off topic  .

[Seze Mune]

The ethics involved here are mind-bending.  Wholesale murder, culling, or overpopulation leading to bloody wars...are these our only conscious alternatives to letting natural disasters and epidemics cull the population for us?

It's clear the species is at a crossroads.  The quantum probabilities that spin off from this are fraught with implications.  Personally, I think the species must level up the evolutionary process and develop a more conscious relationship with that which underlies its existence, or it must admit the experiment has failed in this probability.

To me, that's part of what AVATAR is all about.  A conscious relationship with the self-aware energy of beingness underlying all living things.

[Toruk Makto]

To me, that's part of what AVATAR is all about.  A conscious relationship with the self-aware energy of beingness underlying all living things.

Wow, nicely put.

[Tsmuktengan]

To me, that's part of what AVATAR is all about.  A conscious relationship with the self-aware energy of beingness underlying all living things.

Wow, nicely put.

As usual, if I can say.

[Meuiama Tsamsiyu (Toruk Makto)]

The ethics involved here are mind-bending.  Wholesale murder, culling, or overpopulation leading to bloody wars...are these our only conscious alternatives to letting natural disasters and epidemics cull the population for us?

It's clear the species is at a crossroads.  The quantum probabilities that spin off from this are fraught with implications.  Personally, I think the species must level up the evolutionary process and develop a more conscious relationship with that which underlies its existence, or it must admit the experiment has failed in this probability.

To me, that's part of what AVATAR is all about.  A conscious relationship with the self-aware energy of beingness underlying all living things.

Humanity is quite literally at a cross-roads and if we do not change and change now, we will fall off this cliff.

[Teylar Ta Palulukankelku]

The ethics involved here are mind-bending.  Wholesale murder, culling, or overpopulation leading to bloody wars...are these our only conscious alternatives to letting natural disasters and epidemics cull the population for us?

It's clear the species is at a crossroads.  The quantum probabilities that spin off from this are fraught with implications.  Personally, I think the species must level up the evolutionary process and develop a more conscious relationship with that which underlies its existence, or it must admit the experiment has failed in this probability.

To me, that's part of what AVATAR is all about.  A conscious relationship with the self-aware energy of beingness underlying all living things.

Sorry for being so pessimistic about this, but then again, so are you, ma Seze Mune, as you have stated in previous comments. At the moment, i don't see any other way possible to reduce to world's population to a sustainable level.

And i agree that we humans need to adapt to Eywa rather than to make her adapt to us or else we are doomed to fail. Yet personally, i'm not that concerned about humans as a species. I'm a creature, one among many, living first and foremost around creatures looking and thinking like i do (humanity as a whole). I do not feel a special bond of loyalty to my own kind. I forge my own destiny.

Humanity is quite literally at a cross-roads and if we do not change and change now, we will fall off this cliff.

Oe mllte, ma tsmukan  .

To me, that's part of what AVATAR is all about.  A conscious relationship with the self-aware energy of beingness underlying all living things.

Wow, nicely put.

As usual, if I can say.

Even though i'm an agnostic and are thus not sure whether or not i believe this concept of a world-mind is true, i still think it's a nice metaphor and philosophy to have  . Lora ayli'u nìtxan, ma Seze Mune  .

[Meuiama Tsamsiyu (Toruk Makto)]

The ethics involved here are mind-bending.  Wholesale murder, culling, or overpopulation leading to bloody wars...are these our only conscious alternatives to letting natural disasters and epidemics cull the population for us?

It's clear the species is at a crossroads.  The quantum probabilities that spin off from this are fraught with implications.  Personally, I think the species must level up the evolutionary process and develop a more conscious relationship with that which underlies its existence, or it must admit the experiment has failed in this probability.

To me, that's part of what AVATAR is all about.  A conscious relationship with the self-aware energy of beingness underlying all living things.

Sorry for being so pessimistic about this, but then again, so are you, ma Seze Mune, as you have stated in previous comments. At the moment, i don't see any other way possible to reduce to world's population to a sustainable level.

And i agree that we humans need to adapt to Eywa rather than to make her adapt to us or else we are doomed to fail. Yet personally, i'm not that concerned about humans as a species. I'm a creature, one among many, living first and foremost around creatures looking and thinking like i do (humanity as a whole). I do not feel a special bond of loyalty to my own kind. I forge my own destiny.

Humanity is quite literally at a cross-roads and if we do not change and change now, we will fall off this cliff.

Oe mllte, ma tsmukan  .

To me, that's part of what AVATAR is all about.  A conscious relationship with the self-aware energy of beingness underlying all living things.

Wow, nicely put.

As usual, if I can say.

Even though i'm an agnostic and are thus not sure whether or not i believe this concept of a world-mind is true, i still think it's a nice metaphor and philosophy to have  . Lora ayli'u nìtxan, ma Seze Mune  .

Pessimism is a new form of realistic thinking. It has replaced 'hope' in many people. Hope and desire to create new things that will be the next invention in every home or garage or on every desk in every business.

I whole heartedly agree with both of Seze's statements above in this quote.

[Teylar Ta Palulukankelku]

Yeah, i seriously don't get this race for constant new inventions  . And i would like to add that seeing things negatively doesn't necessarily mean you don't think there's anything that can be done to fix the problem, only that you're very much aware of the fact that there is a problem and that you focus on it instead of looking the other way.

[Teylar Ta Palulukankelku]

Continuing on the topic at hand: I'm not completely sure if this qualifies as an ``argument against James Cameron and Avatar´´  , but have you guys heard of people who's watched the movie and sided with and had sympathies for the RDA instead of the Na'vi  ? And if the answer to that question is yes; How do you feel about that  ?

Even though i've found the current topic fascinating (And to be honest, i still don't get why Seze Mune decided to tie that into the previous discussion  .), i'd like this thread to return to the topic seen above, which i started because i think it's an important issue to look into. I've got some ``evidence´´ to back up my claim. Here you go:

http://browse.deviantart.com/?order=9&q=avatar+quaritch&offset=0#/d2s31fa
http://browse.deviantart.com/?order=9&q=neytiri&offset=96#/d2gg0za

On the latter artwork, you can skip to comment page 10-12 if you don't want to browse through the whole thing manually.

BTW: I like these artworks, especially the latter one. But that's beside the point. I just posted them here to show you the comments.

So, what do you think of this  ?

[Meuiama Tsamsiyu (Toruk Makto)]

The latter did not really have any comment./ I read through the comment thread below and saw nothing regarding favor-ism towards the RDA.

I have to say, as a US Marine ('99-'03) I have NO sympathies towards the RDA. They were corporation troopers no better than bounty hunters or drug guards. A shell of true soldiers, Navy or Marines. Nothing more. Corrupt.

[Human No More]

And by ``viable gene pool´´ you mean enough genetic variety in the world's population to avoid inbreeding  ?

What you're saying here is exactly why i'm skeptical to allowing people who couldn't possibly take care of themselves ever to live. Now, i'm not propagating the murder of everyone who's in a wheelchair (Plus; I believe Avatar clearly shows that not all who are in wheelchairs are helpless  .) or mentally challenged, but i think that if parents find out their baby is i.e. paralyzed even before it is born they may want to consider abortion  .

Couldn't agree more.

[Meuiama Tsamsiyu (Toruk Makto)]

i can agree with your statement here, hnm

[Lolet]

And by ``viable gene pool´´ you mean enough genetic variety in the world's population to avoid inbreeding  ?

What you're saying here is exactly why i'm skeptical to allowing people who couldn't possibly take care of themselves ever to live. Now, i'm not propagating the murder of everyone who's in a wheelchair (Plus; I believe Avatar clearly shows that not all who are in wheelchairs are helpless  .) or mentally challenged, but i think that if parents find out their baby is i.e. paralyzed even before it is born they may want to consider abortion  .

Couldn't agree more.

Well, people already do that. But a lot of parents find out after the little baby is born so I don't think you'll ever get rid of those you find unnecessary.

[Teylar Ta Palulukankelku]

Well, people already do that. But a lot of parents find out after the little baby is born so I don't think you'll ever get rid of those you find unnecessary.

Yep, that's the problem  . I believe that you can greatly ease a parent's burden by letting them know beforehand that their baby won't be able to survive on its own instead of having to experience a terrible shock when it's born and clearly can't function normally.

And by ``viable gene pool´´ you mean enough genetic variety in the world's population to avoid inbreeding  ?

What you're saying here is exactly why i'm skeptical to allowing people who couldn't possibly take care of themselves ever to live. Now, i'm not propagating the murder of everyone who's in a wheelchair (Plus; I believe Avatar clearly shows that not all who are in wheelchairs are helpless  .) or mentally challenged, but i think that if parents find out their baby is i.e. paralyzed even before it is born they may want to consider abortion  .

Couldn't agree more.

i can agree with your statement here, hnm

I'm glad i'm not the only one contemplating this difficult issue  .