Daylight savings time

Started by `Eylan Ayfalulukanä, October 29, 2013, 03:25:30 PM

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`Eylan Ayfalulukanä

I was asked by a coworker what 'daylight savings time' would be in Dothraki and Navi (and Klingon).

For Na'vi, we really don't have a word I am aware of, with the right sense of 'save'. So, here are two attempts:

Krr a zerong atan alu trrä

krr alu fwa zerong atan alu trrä

Would starsìm be a better choice for 'save' than zong?

Yawey ngahu!
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Tìtstewan

Well, IF I understood this correct, "daylight savings time" is like an idiom.
How about this:

Krr alu zìsìkrr tsawkeyä
'Time which is the season of the sun'

Otherwise (literal) IMO this:

Krr a zerong atanur trrä
'Time wich savings light of day'


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Plumps

True, in German this is literally "summer time" and "winter time". No mentioning of saving energy, although everybody knows that's what it's about.

Tìtstewan

I got two ideas :):

Zìsìkrr aysrrä atxankrr.
'Season of the long days.'

Krr aysrrä atxankrr.
'Time of the long days.'


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Plumps

Quote from: Tìtstewan on October 29, 2013, 08:32:23 PM
I got two ideas :):

Zìsìkrr aysrrä atxankrr.
'Season of the long days.'

Krr aysrrä atxankrr.
'Time of the long days.'

Unfortunately, txankrr is an adverb. But since txan can also refer to time it may be valid to put it there on its own.

Alternatives would be:

zìsìkrr srrä a salew nulkrr

But of course, it's quite wordy ;)

Tìtstewan

#5
'ä' overlooked that :-[

Do we can say "big day" in Na'vi (apxa trr) ? That I ask because usually in Romanian we say "ziua mare" lit big day instead long day.

I ask me if the Na'vi have seasons like we on earth? We should have na'vi names for that. :P
From the structure of the months we say, I got also this:

(Ay)srr zìsìkrrä amuve.
'Days of the second season (summer)'

Interesting, huh? :)

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archaic

In answer to your question ..... Yes, there are .....


It can be logically deduced that the area around Hell's Gate has seasons. The tell tale is the mosquito nets on the avatar's beds.

They're there for a reason, and Selfridge describes the Na'vi as "fly bitten".
However the nets are not in use, which means that although nets are needed, they are not needed all the time.
Therefore, logically, there must be a season when the flies bite and a season when they don't.


Therefore there must be seasons.
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Clarke

Excuse me for stating the obvious, but why would the Na'vi care about daylight savings? (As opposed to "summer" in general - that'd be important) They don't have timekeeping accurate enough to notice it.

Tìtstewan

Of course, they don't need that. But this topic is created to find out how we would say "daylight savings time" in Na'vi, so no matter if they use / need that or not. ;)

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archaic

It would be logical to assume they get up at dawn, but then it would be logical to assume they would go to sleep shortly after sunset too. Which they don't.
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Taronyu Leleioae

Quote from: Clarke on October 30, 2013, 11:42:07 AM
Excuse me for stating the obvious, but why would the Na'vi care about daylight savings? (As opposed to "summer" in general - that'd be important) They don't have timekeeping accurate enough to notice it.
Completely agreed with Clarke.  And it's not about timekeeping anyway.  They would rise at or before the dawn, and be home by dark for the protection of HomeTree against dangers.  Thus biological clock rather than artificial time keeping.  Similar even to traditional farmers within the last 50 years.  While going to bed at darkness makes sense, they have the daily meal together.  Perhaps that's more true for children shortly after nightfall.  This getting up is even supported by Grace's line.... "...Village life starts early..."  (or begins early....)

And the Na'vi language already reflects that with "time" phrases.  Before dawn.  Dawn.  Noon.  After nightfall.


NOW that I've said that... I do understand.  That the point here is to TRY find a way to express what time change is, as if to explain it to a Na'vi.  Which I find... a little odd, because I highly doubt that even Hell's Gate would follow a time change being a military based installation anyway.  (It would have something similar to Pandora Zulu time...)

It's not convenient, but I think Plumps is right with part of the explanation being a clause.  Because how else would you explain to the Na'vi the point of such a weird thing to do?  It's this "thing" that we have or change, to do our primary jobs in life in the light.  Of which the Na'vi would reply..., why not just get up with the sun like we do??  :D



Tìtstewan

Well, the thing is, 'Eylan Ayfalulukanä just asked this:
QuoteI was asked by a coworker what 'daylight savings time' would be in Dothraki and Navi (and Klingon).

There is not the question if the Na'vi have this or not, and additionally, this english phrase is idiomatic, hence we have here some attempts how we could say that. There is two ways: literally or by the meaning.

And we don't need to expand this topic with the cultural view of the Na'vi or start talking about the using of the time at Hell's Gate... ::) Rutxe...

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archaic

This might be relevant .....
QuoteInternational Space Station crews experience a sunset or a sunrise every 45 minutes. New members arrive acclimatised to Kazakhstan time, having departed from the Baikonur Cosmodrome. With so much scope for chronological confusion, it's no wonder that the ISS needs to be locked to a consistent time. The zone of choice is Coordinated Universal Time (UTC), which is equivalent to GMT.
Found here .....
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Tìtstewan

Quote from: archaic on October 30, 2013, 12:55:30 PM
This might be relevant .....
...surely not for a simple translation... ::)

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archaic

My apologies for not more carefully clarifying, Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) is literally universal time, the time on the moon is GMT, on mars, Alfa Centauri, Pandora and everywhere else, GMT.
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Taronyu Leleioae

Quote from: Tìtstewan on October 30, 2013, 12:37:06 PM
And we don't need to expand this topic with the cultural view of the Na'vi or start talking about the using of the time at Hell's Gate... ::) Rutxe...
Disappointed seeing this tone...
I think looking at all words and phrases from the viewpoint of the Na'vi is always relevant and productive.


Back to the thread topic:

How about something along the lines of...

[That day of year or season when one must get up earlier...  Or can sleep later...  Due to longer darkness.]

Tsatrr zìskrrä a fko tsun hivahaw nulkrr talun lu ayoengur nulkrr tìvawm.

(Yes, very very clunky and long.  It also makes me wonder about "nulkrr" being classified only as an adverb.)



Tìtstewan

Quote from: Taronyu Leleioae on October 30, 2013, 01:49:42 PM
Quote from: Tìtstewan on October 30, 2013, 12:37:06 PM
And we don't need to expand this topic with the cultural view of the Na'vi or start talking about the using of the time at Hell's Gate... ::) Rutxe...
Disappointed seeing this tone...
I think looking at all words and phrases from the viewpoint of the Na'vi is always relevant and productive.
But this make not always sense. I don't mean all this in negative tone, but it starts to dissaponting me, when I see here a discussion about the Na'vi/Hellgate/UTC thing although here is just asked a question which don't work at the Na'vi view, because they don't have this. And sorry, if I was too negative.

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Clarke

Quote from: Taronyu Leleioae on October 30, 2013, 12:25:50 PM
It's not convenient, but I think Plumps is right with part of the explanation being a clause.  Because how else would you explain to the Na'vi the point of such a weird thing to do?  It's this "thing" that we have or change, to do our primary jobs in life in the light.  Of which the Na'vi would reply..., why not just get up with the sun like we do??  :D
Well, the British answer to that would be "We wouldn't have enough time to get everything done!"  :P

Also, doing some arithmetic, I discovered that a "timezone" on Pandora is roughly 1000 miles across. The fastest birds on Earth can fly at roughly 100mph, and I'd expect an ikran (being far bigger and heavier) to be slower. Of course, timezones don't come in discrete chunks, but since the Na'vi have no mechnical timekeeping, I don't think they'd see a shift of much less than an hour, which in turn means that unless someone flew for 10+ hours ( :o ) mostly continously, it's unlikely that they'd notice anything amiss in that regard.

IMO, a lot of descriptions in this thread, e.g. 'Season of the long days', would be a better description of "summer" rather than specifically of daylight savings time. Interpreting them that way is also IMO far more "appropriate," since its far more obvious that the day gets longer and shorter as the year cycles than that different parts of the world experience different times-within-the-day at the same time, let alone that we artificially move "midnight" around for no physical reason.  (Worse, it doesn't even synch up - different regions change DST at different times! I can almost see Mo'at's point...  ::))

Oh, finally: the whole idea of DST involves obeying an artificially constructed notion of time over the natural indications like sunrise, noon, etc. They'd probably find the whole idea very strange, let alone have any sort of term for it. IMO, it's a bit like asking what the Na'vi for "credit card" is - any sort of term you come up with will be contrived, because Na'vi culture doesn't have the background knowledge you need to even conceive of it.

Quote from: archaic on October 30, 2013, 01:37:13 PM
My apologies for not more carefully clarifying, Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) is literally universal time, the time on the moon is GMT, on mars, Alfa Centauri, Pandora and everywhere else, GMT.
Technically, UTC is the time at ground level. In geosynchronous or Pandoran orbit, time passes ever so slightly (1 part in billions) faster because of the difference in gravity. Also, while the surfaces of the Earth and Pandora will experience time at almost the same rate, synching clocks might be difficult - because the trip there is at such high speed, the clock will slow down significantly compared to Earth.

Blue Elf

Quote from: `Eylan Ayfalulukanä on October 29, 2013, 03:25:30 PM
I was asked by a coworker what 'daylight savings time' would be in Dothraki and Navi (and Klingon).

For Na'vi, we really don't have a word I am aware of, with the right sense of 'save'. So, here are two attempts:

Krr a zerong atanit alu trrä
Time which saves light of the day. Hmm, sounds quite interesting
zong is marked just as v., buth it gives sense to use it as transitive here. In Czech we also say simple summer or winter time.

Quotekrr alu fwa zerong atanit alu trrä
This translates as (very literally): time by other words this (thing) which saves light of the day.
It gives no good sense - why alu? and if we expect zong as vtr., there should be fula instead of fwa - but fula introduces subordinate clause which is missing. First example is much better.
Quote
Would starsìm be a better choice for 'save' than zong?
I don't think, it means "gather, collect", it's something different than saving (in sense of defending).

Quote(Ay)hrrä zìsìkrr amuve.
'Days of the second season (summer)'
(ay)srr zìsìkrrä amuve (your version says: second season of times)

Some time ago I was trying to find names for seasons, search here: http://forum.learnnavi.org/projects/dictionary-of-missing-words/
(oh, it's already 2 years....)
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
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Tìtstewan

#19
Interesting that you "correct" Krr a zerong atanit alu trrä with -ti if were zong transitive...(and it has an unknown transitivity).



Quote from: Blue Elf on October 30, 2013, 02:39:09 PM
Quote(Ay)hrrä zìsìkrr amuve.
'Days of the second season (summer)'
(ay)srr zìsìkrrä amuve (your version says: second season of times)
Huh... Fixed! ;D

Quote from: Blue Elf on October 30, 2013, 02:39:09 PM
Some time ago I was trying to find names for seasons, search here: http://forum.learnnavi.org/projects/dictionary-of-missing-words/
(oh, it's already 2 years....)
Interesting. I have looked at the months, and I used the same schematic for the season.
zìsìkrr a'awve
zìsìkrr amuve
zìsìkrr apxeyve
zìsìkrr atsìve
= spring
= summer
= autumn
= winter

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