Our Dictionary

Started by Taronyu, December 27, 2009, 09:23:54 PM

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Erimeyz

Added link to interview to Resources page on wiki: http://wiki.learnnavi.org/index.php?title=Resources#Media_Stories_About_the_Na.27vi_Language_-_Print

Meanwhile, Tiger (who?) is busily adding the phrases to the Corpus: http://wiki.learnnavi.org/index.php?title=Corpus as roger and I ninja back-and-forth on this thread. :)

 - Eri

omängum fra'uti

Oe lu fì'u a lolatem wìkit

It was my original forum account name before I learned enough Na'vi to create my own.  At the time I couldn't even remember my forum name let alone type it in from memory, so I stuck with my original forum name when registering on the wiki.

QuoteOeyä ikran slivu nga, tsakrr ayoeng 'awsiteng mivakto
ANY bad feelings I had about stuff I've used Na'vi to say are officially gone, with that one.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Na'rìghawnu

QuoteBased on the dictionary entry for Neytìri.  One of 'em's wrong... and the entry had matching IPA, so I figured it was the better researched of the two.

Ok. The dictionary says the word's source is Cameron's script. But he uses "Neytiri" in his script. And - as said above - the only corpus source for this word also has "Neytiri". So - as long as there is no other source - I'd call it "Neytiri" instead of "Neytìri".

QuoteIf I got wrong which one is wrong, do I still get partial credit?

Has to be answered by Taronyu. ;-)


Taronyu

Edited to Neytiri. I should not that I found Neytíri somewhere, once. Thanks erimeyz.

Added words. Thanks roger.

And thanks to all, btw. You've been a great community, and it really has made me glad to be a part of all of this. Why say this now? I just hit the 1000 post mark. Allowed to be a bit sentimental.

New Dictionary version up!

Lance R. Casey

Also tsakrr then, at that time, and note the change in vowel quality in pxasìk.

// Lance R. Casey

Plumps

Quote from: Taronyu on January 27, 2010, 05:25:31 AM
And thanks to all, btw. You've been a great community, and it really has made me glad to be a part of all of this. Why say this now? I just hit the 1000 post mark. Allowed to be a bit sentimental.

I was waiting the moment that would happen ;)

No, ma Taronyu, it's we who have to thank you!!!

Na'rìghawnu

#326
Quotenote the change in vowel quality in pxasìk.

Shall we trust this article?
I'm not sure ... it doesn't look that it was done with much diligence.
I didn't read it very carefully til now, but what I saw at first sight, is that they spell her "Netery" (at least once) and claim, that the tree, where Jake and Neytiri have had their first "communion" (as they name it) was the "tree of souls", what obviously isn't true. So, if they make such profound mistakes, shall we believe, that they spend much more diligence in spelling Na'vi words? At least "pxasik" was given in the UGO-interview. So we have two different versions of this word given in two interviews ... of which the newer one doesn't seem to be done very carefully.

Erimeyz

Quote from: Taronyu on January 27, 2010, 05:25:31 AM
I should not that I found Neytíri somewhere, once.

... really?  Now that would be a real find! :)

Quote from: Taronyu on January 27, 2010, 05:25:31 AM
I just hit the 1000 post mark.

Woot! +karma and thanks for all the fish amazing work!

  - Eri

Erimeyz

Quote from: Na'rìghawnu on January 27, 2010, 08:11:23 AM
Shall we trust this article?
I'm not sure ... it doesn't look that it was done with much diligence.
I didn't read it very carefully til now, but what I saw at first sight, is that they spell her "Netery" (at least once) and claim, that the tree, where Jake and Neytiri have had their first "communion" (as they name it) was the "tree of souls", what obviously isn't true. So, if they make such profound mistakes, shall we believe, that they spend much more diligence in spelling Na'vi words?

I spotted "Netery" too.  I think we can be confident in anything said directly by Frommer in that interview, because as I noted, it appears to have been an email interview.  You can tell by the disconnectedness of the questions, and by Frommer's responses... an in-person interview would not have that kind of phrasing, and a transcription of an in-person interview would not have that kind of punctuation.  So the editor almost certainly did a straight cut-and-paste from email (you don't think she'd have actually bothered to type ì and ä, do you?), then added the introduction (complete with crappy spelling) and a few editorial comments in brackets.

  - Eri

omängum fra'uti

Quote from: roger on January 27, 2010, 01:47:15 AM
and Oeyä ikran slivu nga, tsakrr ayoeng 'awsiteng mivakto. "Be my ikran and let's ride together."

okay, is he trying for cheese?

Oops, looks like a goof slipped through. Unless he's proposing a double date, it should be just oeng.
That would be more than a double date, because a double date would still just be pxoe.

I guess Frommer REALLY gets into the University party spirit!
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Ftiafpi

Quote from: omängum fra'uti on January 27, 2010, 01:40:27 PM
Quote from: roger on January 27, 2010, 01:47:15 AM
and Oeyä ikran slivu nga, tsakrr ayoeng 'awsiteng mivakto. "Be my ikran and let's ride together."

okay, is he trying for cheese?

Oops, looks like a goof slipped through. Unless he's proposing a double date, it should be just oeng.
That would be more than a double date, because a double date would still just be pxoe.

I guess Frommer REALLY gets into the University party spirit!

rofl, Frommer referencing Na'vi orgies ftw!

Lance R. Casey

Quote from: Na'rìghawnu on January 27, 2010, 08:11:23 AM
Quotenote the change in vowel quality in pxasìk.

Shall we trust this article?
I'm not sure ... it doesn't look that it was done with much diligence.
I didn't read it very carefully til now, but what I saw at first sight, is that they spell her "Netery" (at least once) and claim, that the tree, where Jake and Neytiri have had their first "communion" (as they name it) was the "tree of souls", what obviously isn't true. So, if they make such profound mistakes, shall we believe, that they spend much more diligence in spelling Na'vi words? At least "pxasik" was given in the UGO-interview. So we have two different versions of this word given in two interviews ... of which the newer one doesn't seem to be done very carefully.

Yes, I think we probably should. Looking more closely at the UGO interview, there are a number of oddities. One which is of particular relevance is that kaltxì is given as **kaltxi, but the sequence "tovaron, telaron, tusaron, tairon" is stranger than most (and that last form is clearly just plain wrong in any case). Aylì'ufa Erimeyzä, this new interview has, on the other hand, more an appearance of copypaste.

// Lance R. Casey

Mirri

Quote from: Ftiafpi on January 27, 2010, 01:46:10 PM
Quote from: omängum fra'uti on January 27, 2010, 01:40:27 PM
Quote from: roger on January 27, 2010, 01:47:15 AM
and Oeyä ikran slivu nga, tsakrr ayoeng 'awsiteng mivakto. "Be my ikran and let's ride together."

okay, is he trying for cheese?

Oops, looks like a goof slipped through. Unless he's proposing a double date, it should be just oeng.
That would be more than a double date, because a double date would still just be pxoe.

I guess Frommer REALLY gets into the University party spirit!

rofl, Frommer referencing Na'vi orgies ftw!

Mrrr, big blue orgies  ;D

I think I'm missing something here. Can someone explain to me why there isn't an ergative and accusative in the first sentence? How do you know the genitive oeyä refers to ikran rather than nga if the word order is free?
Ngaya poanìl new mune 'uti: hrrap sì uvan. Talun poanìl new ayfoeti -- ayfo lu lehrrap ayu leuvan.

omängum fra'uti

Two reasons on that one.  The first is the word order isn't COMPLETELY free.  You can't just put the words in a deck and shuffle them without changing the meaning.  There are some ordering rules.  One is that genitives go next to what they are possessing.

The other is my theory; that a pronoun does not make any sense as the "target" of a genitive.  It would be like saying "His me" or "Your them".  So even if you had "Nga oeyä ikran" I don't think it would be ambiguous.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Mirri

Quote from: omängum fra'uti on January 27, 2010, 03:08:11 PM
Two reasons on that one.  The first is the word order isn't COMPLETELY free.  You can't just put the words in a deck and shuffle them without changing the meaning.  There are some ordering rules.  One is that genitives go next to what they are possessing.

The other is my theory; that a pronoun does not make any sense as the "target" of a genitive.  It would be like saying "His me" or "Your them".  So even if you had "Nga oeyä ikran" I don't think it would be ambiguous.

I suspected the one about the word order. I have problems with that when I'm using comparisons. If the things being compared aren't ordered around 'than' (to) like they are in English, it's difficult to grasp the meaning.

However, if what you're saying about pronouns not being the target genitive is true, how would you say "You are mine". Or "The Ikran is strong, he is mine."
Ngaya poanìl new mune 'uti: hrrap sì uvan. Talun poanìl new ayfoeti -- ayfo lu lehrrap ayu leuvan.

Taronyu

Quote from: omängum fra'uti on January 27, 2010, 03:08:11 PM
Two reasons on that one.  The first is the word order isn't COMPLETELY free.  You can't just put the words in a deck and shuffle them without changing the meaning.  There are some ordering rules.  One is that genitives go next to what they are possessing.

The other is my theory; that a pronoun does not make any sense as the "target" of a genitive.  It would be like saying "His me" or "Your them".  So even if you had "Nga oeyä ikran" I don't think it would be ambiguous.

True.

Japanese, among many others, allows for modifications of pronouns. As a theory, though, this isn't a bad one.

omängum fra'uti

#336
Quote from: Mirri on January 27, 2010, 03:24:38 PM
However, if what you're saying about pronouns not being the target genitive is true, how would you say "You are mine". Or "The Ikran is strong, he is mine."
Well see you slipped the copula in there...

Oeri nga lu. - Of me, you are
Oeru nga lu. - I have you

The thing with genitives possessing pronouns I came up as the only way to disambiguate strings of genitives.

'eylan sempulä eyktanä tsmukeyä 'eylanä 'itanä
The meaning there is completely ambiguous because there is no pronoun, so it's a big genitive mosh pit.

'eylan oeyä sempulä eyktanä tsmukeyä 'eylanä 'itanä
Now it clearly can only mean "My father's leader's sister's friend's son's friend".  The pronoun turned the mosh pit into a nice orderly line of possession.

'eylan sempulä eyktanä tsmukeyä 'eylanä 'itanä oeyä
Of course word order is free so this is equally valid, and means "My son's friend's sister's leader's father's friend".
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

wm.annis

Quote from: omängum fra'uti on January 27, 2010, 03:35:23 PMOeri nga lu.

I must confess I haven't the foggiest idea what that would mean.

omängum fra'uti

That's ok, neither do I. :D
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Mirri

#339
Quote from: omängum fra'uti on January 27, 2010, 03:35:23 PM
Quote from: Mirri on January 27, 2010, 03:24:38 PM
However, if what you're saying about pronouns not being the target genitive is true, how would you say "You are mine". Or "The Ikran is strong, he is mine."
Well see you slipped the copula in there...

Oeri nga lu. - Of me, you are
Oeru nga lu. - I have you

The thing with genitives possessing pronouns I came up as the only way to disambiguate strings of genitives.

'eylan sempulä eyktanä tsmukeyä 'eylanä 'itanä
The meaning there is completely ambiguous because there is no pronoun, so it's a big genitive mosh pit.

'eylan oeyä sempulä eyktanä tsmukeyä 'eylanä 'itanä
Now it clearly can only mean "My father's leader's suster's friend's son's friend".  The pronoun turned the mosh pit into a nice orderly line of possession.

'eylan sempulä eyktanä tsmukeyä 'eylanä 'itanä oeyä
Of course word order is free so this is equally valid, and means "My daughter's friend's sister's leader's mother's friend".

Noooow I'm confused.
To me, 'eylan oeyä sempulä eyktanä tsmukeyä 'eylanä 'itanä translates to "My father's leader's sister's friend's son's friend".

And 'eylan sempulä eyktanä tsmukeyä 'eylanä 'itanä oeyä would be, according to your theory that the genitive object is next to the pronoun, in this case in front of, it'll be "My son's friend's sister's leader's father's friend". Reading it 'backwards', so to say.

And I'm not sure how this doesn't violate your rule. Shouldn't the first 'eylan be at the end, next to 'itanä?
Ngaya poanìl new mune 'uti: hrrap sì uvan. Talun poanìl new ayfoeti -- ayfo lu lehrrap ayu leuvan.