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Author Topic: Na'vi 2 alphanumeric  (Read 850 times)
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'eylan na'viyä
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« on: April 25, 2010, 02:32:55 pm »

When registering on web pages i often have the problem that only a-z;A-Z;0-9 are allowed. My username eg has 3 disallowed characters. so i often have to choose a replacement (also a general problem in my native language german with ä,ö,ü,ß).

maybe we could establish a better solution than leaving out "'", writing i for ì and ae for ä which seems to be the current way atm.
These are the solutions i could think of:
"'""7"(resembling ʔ)like in Skxwxwu7mesh<-best solution by common consent
"1"possibly conflicting with the solution for "ì"
"-"might be also disallowed;does not really resemble "'"
""(leave it out)not the best way in my opinion
"_"might be also disallowed;does not really resemble "'"
"ì""1"in combination with ' = 7 too much leet
"I"get sometimes converted to lowercase
"ii" in english "ì" is always shorter that "i", so this could be a bit confusing
"j""j" is at least a bit "i"isch
"-i""-" might be also disallowed;cuts up words optically;in some(rare) situations the original "-" might be be necessary
"ä""4"in combination with ' = 7 too much leet
"A"get sometimes converted to lowercase
"d"could be misleading especially for beginners who were told that there is no d in Na'vi
"q"maybe less confusing than d
"ae"like it is done in German but in German there is usually no vocalcluster "ae" but in Na'vi there is eg:meoauniaea
"ai"also exists eg:soaia
"aa"could be a bit confusing with unnecessary adjective "a"s like "apxa" -> "apxaa" <!=> 'upxareyä -> 'upxareyaa
"-a""-" might be also disallowed;cuts up words optically;in some(rare) situations the original "-" might be be necessary
"é""ee"
?
*"I,ii,A,ae,ai,aa"language learners might understand/pronounce them incorrectly because of false assumptions

which ones would you prefer? or are there other solutions?

btw: if you think a pro/contra for one of the options is missing in the list, tell me
« Last Edit: April 27, 2010, 04:21:48 pm by 'eylan na'viyä » Logged

kewnya txamew'itan
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« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2010, 02:45:05 pm »

'"7"(resembling ʔ);"1";"-"(might be also disallowed);""(leave it out (not the best way in my opinion)
ì"1";"I"
ä"4";"A";"d";"ae"(like it is done in German but in German there is usually no vocalcluster "ae" but in Na'vi there is);"ai"(does "ai" exist in Na'vi?)

Na'vi allows all non-consecutive vowel clusters (i.e. no aa, ee, ii, oo, or uu).

I was thinking about this quite recently in fact and was thinking of:

ì -> ii
ä -> aa

but I didn't know what to do for ', I like you idea of 7.
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« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2010, 03:18:44 pm »

thanks, i added them to the list.
although they are at least better than most of the other solutions i think there are problems with these too:

"ii": i would rather associate "ii" with "i" and "i" with "ì" but switching them would lead to total confusion

"aa" could be a bit confusing with unnecessary adjective "a"s like "apxa" -> "apxaa" <!=> 'upxareyä -> 'upxareyaa
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« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2010, 03:28:53 pm »

Possibly. It's still less confusing than ae or ai would be, they both occur already (meouaniaea and soaia).
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« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2010, 03:37:54 pm »

but I didn't know what to do for ', I like you idea of 7.

This is exactly how the Skxwxwu7mesh language writes a glottal stop, with a number 7. I had a thread about it in the Linguistics section but I don't know if it's still there. I know it's a cliche, but...great minds think alike, I guess.

Unrelated: When did Frommer finally decide on what meoauniaea meant?
edit: Found it, it was in the Earth Day message! How did I not read that already!!!

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'eylan na'viyä
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« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2010, 03:51:56 pm »

Possibly. It's still less confusing than ae or ai would be, they both occur already (meouaniaea and soaia).

thats true, none of them is perfect. atm i would also prefer your solution but im not 100% happy with it.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2010, 04:09:00 pm by 'eylan na'viyä » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2010, 03:54:00 pm »

This is exactly how the Skxwxwu7mesh language writes a glottal stop, with a number 7. I had a thread about it in the Linguistics section but I don't know if it's still there. I know it's a cliche, but...great minds think alike, I guess.

Unrelated: When did Frommer finally decide on what meoauniaea meant?
edit: Found it, it was in the Earth Day message! How did I not read that already!!!

Kayrìlien

I remember that thread, didn't remember the 7=' thing though.

I'm glad Frommer finally got round to it. Now I can translate my tawtute name perfectly.

Possibly. It's still less confusing than ae or ai would be, they both occur already (meouaniaea and soaia).

thats true, none of them is perfect. atm i would also prefer this solution but im not 100% happy with it.

Which solution?

'=7 is definitely the best, but what have we decided for ì and ä?

I for one think that ae or ai would be unworkable, A or I could work though I guess.
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Internet Acronyms Nìna'vi

hamletä tìralpuseng lena'vi sngolä'eiyi. tìkangkem si awngahu ro
http://bit.ly/53GnAB
The translation of Hamlet into Na'vi has started! Join with us at http://bit.ly/53GnAB

txo nga new oehu pivlltxe nìna'vi, nga oer 'eylan si mì fayspuk (http://bit.ly/bp9fwf)
If you want to speak na'vi to me, friend me on facebook (http://bit.ly/bp9fwf)

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« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2010, 04:19:57 pm »

This is exactly how the Skxwxwu7mesh language writes a glottal stop, with a number 7. I had a thread about it in the Linguistics section but I don't know if it's still there. I know it's a cliche, but...great minds think alike, I guess.
Re: i think you can find people with better linguistic skills than mine around this forum easily Wink

Unrelated: When did Frommer finally decide on what meoauniaea meant?
edit: Found it, it was in the Earth Day message! How did I not read that already!!!

Kayrìlien

I remember that thread, didn't remember the 7=' thing though.
i read that thread too but could not find it again. i had some wikipedia articles about ipa opened at that time, so this relation seemed quite obvious to me.
I'm glad Frommer finally got round to it. Now I can translate my tawtute name perfectly.

Possibly. It's still less confusing than ae or ai would be, they both occur already (meouaniaea and soaia).

thats true, none of them is perfect. atm i would also prefer this solution but im not 100% happy with it.
Which solution?
i meant yours, sorry
'=7 is definitely the best, but what have we decided for ì and ä?

I for one think that ae or ai would be unworkable, A or I could work though I guess.
A&I look good but very often capitalization gets lost eg with email-addresses and domains
« Last Edit: April 25, 2010, 04:34:47 pm by 'eylan na'viyä » Logged

roger
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« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2010, 12:27:25 pm »

I think the best solution is probably to use SAMPA-like caps and accept that sometimes they'll get lost. I suppose if you're into leet, numerals would work, but they'd throw a lot of people. My 2nd choice though. Double vowels are as confusing as hell.
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Tsamsiyu92
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« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2010, 01:38:15 pm »

ä = æ (ae).
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kewnya txamew'itan
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« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2010, 01:48:57 pm »

Ma tsamsiyu, whilst that would certainly be logical (and follow on from other languages that do other characters with an umlaut that way), it would be unworkable because na'vi allows for the vowel cluster ae which appears in my name amongst other places.
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« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2010, 04:19:15 pm »

I think the best solution is probably to use SAMPA-like caps and accept that sometimes they'll get lost. I suppose if you're into leet, numerals would work, but they'd throw a lot of people. My 2nd choice though. Double vowels are as confusing as hell.

whereas ' = 7 seems to be common consent, additional numerals would make it look too much like 1337. I also thought about that.

i added ì = j and a = q to the list. i think with both, newcomers would rather look up how to pronounce them first, instead of assuming how it is done, like it would probably happen with aa and ii. And people who know the language at least a bit might detect it as alternative transcription quite easily.
what do you think about them?
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« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2010, 04:21:51 pm »

j and q is a good idea actually. No-one's going to look at kaltxj and assume they can pronounce it correctly.

I guess this transcription would fit more naturally as an extension of the scientific notation than the normal one wouldn't it?
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Internet Acronyms Nìna'vi

hamletä tìralpuseng lena'vi sngolä'eiyi. tìkangkem si awngahu ro
http://bit.ly/53GnAB
The translation of Hamlet into Na'vi has started! Join with us at http://bit.ly/53GnAB

txo nga new oehu pivlltxe nìna'vi, nga oer 'eylan si mì fayspuk (http://bit.ly/bp9fwf)
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« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2010, 04:37:55 pm »

I guess this transcription would fit more naturally as an extension of the scientific notation than the normal one wouldn't it?
though you're right i think it could be applied to both. I think most people on this forum are used to the normal notation. So, when creating something public like usernames emails and domains one would probably chose the more widespread version and only change that what cannot be avoided.
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« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2010, 03:13:16 pm »

Kaltxì!

Here is a very universal (if ugly) idea. Just add a '-' before the a or i to represent a non-ASCII accent. And use _ for ’. These chars are unreserved, unrestricted, and no language learner would be so reckless as to suppose they could pronounce them right. Cheesy

ì: -i (lìm –> l-im)
ä: -a (swirä –> swir-a)
: _ (’aw –> _aw)
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