Art related Vocab

Started by Skxawng, February 01, 2010, 10:03:00 AM

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Skxawng

Been in communication with Pawl myself, I figured I'd add these to this area.

Quote from: Pawl
Law lu oeru fwa nga mì reltseo nolume nìtxan!

[fwa = fì'u a
rel = image, picture
reltseo = visual art
law = clear]

Quote from: PawlMa Pìraysì,

Tewti!!!

Rel oeyä na uniltìranyu lor lu nìngay! Reltseotu atxantsan lu nga!

[reltseotu = artist
txantsan = excellent]

New Vocab:

Fwa = That Which
Rel = Image, Picture
Reltseo = Visual Art
Reltseotu = Artist

What I find interesting is the use of -tu instead of -yu on reltseotu. My assumption here is that if -yu is "verb-er" than -tu is "verb-ist"  I'll be asking him about that and will hopefully have some clarification.


"prrkxentrrkrr is a skill best saved for only the most cunning linguist"

Alìm Tsamsiyu

Quote from: Skxawng on February 01, 2010, 10:03:00 AM
New Vocab:[/u]
Fwa = That Which
Rel = Image, Picture
Reltseo = Visual Art
Reltesotu = Artist

What I find interesting is the use of -tu instead of -yu on reltseotu. My assumption here is that if -yu is "verb-er" than -tu is "verb-ist"  I'll be asking him about that and will hopefully have some clarification.

Got a typo there :)

Also - wouldn't "Reltseo" be a noun, in which case -tu might be used on nouns rather than verbs.  However, I think your deduction is more correct, since "tu" seems to be related to people, meaning the "-ist" analogy is probably more likely.
Oeyä ayswizawri tswayon alìm ulte takuk nìngay.
My arrows fly far and strike true.

Plumps

spe'e is a verb and there we have the form spe'etu
Maybe it can be used for both verb and noun

Alìm Tsamsiyu

#3
Yeah, I'm not sure really what the difference is between -yu and -tu, other than -er and -ist in English, which seems to be the best analogy so far.

With your spe'etu example, however, the analogy breaks down.  Spe'etu isn't a "capturist" it's a captive, someone who has been captured.

It makes more sense with nouns, since in English that seems to be when the "-ist" suffix is applied (motorist, artist, pianist, violinist).  In English one could be an art-ist (noun-ist) and a paint-er (verb-er [probably a bad example, since paint is also a noun xD]).

Perhaps when "-tu" is added to a verb, it refers to the person/people commonly linked to such a verb, meaning it would be a somewhat rare occurance, where instead of meaning "One who <verbs>" it means "One who is <verb>ed."  Maybe with a word like tspang (to kill) you have tspangyu (killer) and perhaps tspangtu (homicide victim/kill) i.e.: "Hey, he was my kill!" | "Nang poan oeyä tspangtu lìmu!"

Not sure on this... but that's my 2¢.
Oeyä ayswizawri tswayon alìm ulte takuk nìngay.
My arrows fly far and strike true.

Eight

#4
Quote from: Alìm Tsamsiyu on February 01, 2010, 12:50:44 PM
It makes more sense with nouns, since in English that seems to be when the "-ist" suffix is applied (motorist, artist, pianist, violinist).  In English one could be an art-ist (noun-ist) and a paint-er (verb-er [probably a bad example, since paint is also a noun xD]).
Pretty sure there's actually no real rule for the choice of -er and -ist in English, just trends. You could spend all day listing examples... but I'll give two of my favourites. Builder - nice... verb+er = sorted! Roofer - noun+er awwww crap!!! ;)

However, that doesn't mean you not right about Na'vi.

Edit: Ok, I remember someone once saying that -ist came from Greek and so the choice was perhaps (a long time ago) based upon where the word in question originated from. In modern English, with "recently" created terms, I suspect this theory is now quite worthless in application. :)

Alìm Tsamsiyu

#5
Ehhh - Roofer is a little bit of a stretch, "roof" can be used as a verb, a definition attested in many dictionaries as "to cover a building with a roof."

i.e.: "We're going to re-roof our house." "We chose to roof our house with metal roofing" (Heh, multiple uses!)
Oeyä ayswizawri tswayon alìm ulte takuk nìngay.
My arrows fly far and strike true.

Eight

Quote from: Alìm Tsamsiyu on February 01, 2010, 01:25:07 PM
Ehhh - Roofer is a little bit of a stretch, "roof" can be used as a verb, a definition attested in many dictionaries as "to cover a building with a roof."
True... but it's from Old English hrof - a noun.

As to what came first, roofer or to roof, I have no idea. :D

I suspect -ist is more regular in it's application since all the big "ists" tend to be medical/science terms which were taken from Greek nouns anyway.

Eight

Quote from: Alìm Tsamsiyu on February 01, 2010, 01:25:07 PM
We chose to roof our house with metal roofing" (Heh, multiple uses!)
How about

"Our roofer chose to roof his house with metal roofing".

Roof + 1. :D

omängum fra'uti

Our dog went "roof" when the roofer tried to roof our house with metal roofing so we slipped him a rufie.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Eight

Quote from: omängum fra'uti on February 01, 2010, 01:45:28 PM
Our dog went "roof" when the roofer tried to roof our house with metal roofing so we slipped him a rufie.
...

Surely that's unbeatable!?!

Er... I think we're getting well off-topic here mind. :D

omängum fra'uti

We're just being lelì'utseo (Poetic - deriving lì'utseo as word-art/poetry).
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Na'rìghawnu

 ???

QuoteMa Pawl

I guess, you mean Dr. Frommer. But what about the "Ma"?
Since you don't speak to him directly here, the vocative doesn't make sense, does it?

Besides that: Thank you for the words!

omängum fra'uti

We don't call him skxawng because he's clever with the language....

;D
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Eight

#13
Actually Alim, I'm going to somewhat change my mind on all this -er stuff... since just about every use of -er to refer to someone (who conducts or is interested in) that I can think of has it's root in a word attested in modernish English as both a noun and a verb (or in some cases just a verb).

It's just not a helpful language here - we seem to create verb forms for everything. :D Edit: Including to motor.

Now that I think about, the irregularites are more towards the use of -ist with more modern terms. But that one is understandable.

Skxawng

#14
Quote from: omängum fra'uti on February 01, 2010, 01:52:30 PM
We don't call him skxawng because he's clever with the language....

;D

lol up yours ;D

Also I had the notion that perhaps -tu is similar to -ru and-ur, in that perhaps -tu is used when the last letter in a word is a vowel, instead of consonant.

hopefully we'll have clarification soon


"prrkxentrrkrr is a skill best saved for only the most cunning linguist"

omängum fra'uti

Taronyu - hunter
Tsamsiyu - warrior

One follows a consonant the other a vowel.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Prrton

Quote from: Skxawng on February 01, 2010, 10:03:00 AM
Been in communication with Pawl myself, I figured I'd add these to this area.

Quote from: Pawl
Law lu oeru fwa nga mì reltseo nolume nìtxan!

fwa = fì'u a


New Vocab:

Fwa = That Which


Rutxe, awngur wìntu sìknongit tsa'lì'uyä san« fwa »sìk mìlì'olo hu aylì'u alahe sì tìralpeng.

  tKNg: San« Oe *pxiset new ivomum *terifwa nga trram ftxamey »sìkìri eyawr lu ke srak?

  e.g: Is "I want to know *right-now *about-that-which (="what") you selected yesterday" correct or not?

IRAYO!

Alìm Tsamsiyu

Quote from: Prrton on February 01, 2010, 04:47:49 PM
Quote from: Skxawng on February 01, 2010, 10:03:00 AM
Been in communication with Pawl myself, I figured I'd add these to this area.

Quote from: Pawl
Law lu oeru fwa nga mì reltseo nolume nìtxan!

fwa = fì'u a


New Vocab:

Fwa = That Which


Rutxe, awngur wìntuknongit tsa'lì'uyä san« fwa »sìk mìlì'olo hu aylì'u alahe sì tìralpeng.

  tKNg: San« Oe *pxiset new ivomum *terifwa nga trram ftxamey »sìkìri eyawr lu ke srak?

  e.g: Is "I want to know *right-now *about-that-which (="what") you selected yesterday" correct or not?

IRAYO!


Oel tse'eia, fa oeyä nari ahì'i, me-t(x)aypot! :)
I spy, with my little eye, some typos!

Anyway - yeah it'd be nice if we had some more examples.. or should I say, exaples? exmples? xD
Oeyä ayswizawri tswayon alìm ulte takuk nìngay.
My arrows fly far and strike true.

Skxawng

Quote from: Prrton on February 01, 2010, 04:47:49 PM
Rutxe, awngur wìntu sìknongit tsa'lì'uyä san« fwa »sìk mìlì'olo hu aylì'u alahe sì tìralpeng.

  tKNg: San« Oe *pxiset new ivomum *terifwa nga trram ftxamey »sìkìri eyawr lu ke srak?

  e.g: Is "I want to know *right-now *about-that-which (="what") you selected yesterday" correct or not?

IRAYO!


ke lu oeru kea aysìknongit alahe ftu fromrr, oe letsap'alute lu!



"prrkxentrrkrr is a skill best saved for only the most cunning linguist"

Erimeyz