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Author Topic: Particles - higgs boson  (Read 1545 times)
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`Eylan Ayfalulukanä
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« Reply #45 on: May 13, 2012, 03:47:59 am »

They were able to increase beam energy about 15 percent over last year, and their bunch count now is where they were midsummer last year. If I am reading this right, I think they need to slow down a bit, and work on fewer, higher energy collisions than many, moderate energy collisions. But you all know how much physicists like to play with big, complex, powerful, expensive toys  Grin
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« Reply #46 on: June 21, 2012, 10:53:01 am »

From Wired Science:

Physics Community Afire With Rumors of Higgs Boson Discovery

   
By Adam Mann
    June 20, 2012 |
    6:30 am |
[/b]

One of the biggest debuts in the science world could happen in a matter of weeks: The Higgs boson may finally, really have been discovered.

Ever since tantalizing hints of the Higgs turned up in December at the Large Hadron Collider, scientists there have been busily analyzing the results of their energetic particle collisions to further refine their search.

“The bottom line though is now clear: There’s something there which looks like a Higgs is supposed to look,” wrote mathematician Peter Woit on his blog, Not Even Wrong. According to Woit, there are rumors of new data that would be the most compelling evidence yet for the long-sought Higgs.

The possible news has a number of physics bloggers speculating that LHC scientists will announce the discovery of the Higgs during the International Conference on High Energy Physics, which takes place in Melbourne, Australia, July 4 to 11.

The new buzz is just the latest in the Higgs search drama. In December, rumors circulated regarding hints of the Higgs around 125 gigaelectronvolts (GeV), roughly 125 times the mass of a proton. While those rumors eventually turned out to be true, the hard data only amounted to what scientists call a 3-sigma signal, meaning that there is a 0.13 percent probability that the events happened by chance. This is the level at which particle physicists will only say they have “evidence” for a particle.

In the rigorous world of high-energy physics, researchers wait to see a 5-sigma signal, which has only a 0.000028 percent probability of happening by chance, before claiming a “discovery.”

The latest Higgs rumors suggest nearly-there 4-sigma signals are turning up at both of the two separate LHC experiments that are hunting for the particle. As physicist Philip Gibbs points out on his blog, Vixra log, if each experiment is seeing a 4-sigma signal, then this is almost definitely the long-sought particle. Combining the two 4-sigma results should be enough to clear that 5-sigma hurdle.

Of course, Gibbs reminds us that the rumors come with some caveats, such as the fact that they are vague and not completely reliable. Scientists outside the experiment also don’t yet know how much data has been analyzed from this year, meaning that the rumored results could disappear with further scrutiny.

The Higgs boson is the final piece of the Standard Model — a framework developed in the late 20th century that describes the interactions of all known subatomic particles and forces. The Standard Model contains many other particles — such as quarks and W bosons — each of which has been found in the last four decades using enormous particle colliders, but the Higgs remains to be found. The Higgs boson is critical to the Standard Model, because interacting with the Higgs is what gives all the other particles their mass. Not finding it would severely undermine our current understanding of the universe.

While discovery of the Higgs would be a remarkable achievement, many researchers are also eager to hear the details from the experiments, which may indicate that the Higgs boson has slightly different properties than those theoretically predicted. Any deviations from theory could suggest the existence of heretofore-unknown physics beyond the Standard Model, including models such as supersymmetry, which posits a heavier partner to all known particles.

Image: A disk full of silicon sensors that sits as an endcap on ATLAS, one of the LHC experiments searching for the Higgs boson. Peter Ginter/ATLAS collaboration/CERN
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« Reply #47 on: June 21, 2012, 02:54:05 pm »

They are having challenges with the Higgs particle, as it has an exceptionally short half-life. But it is heartening to see that it is being detected by two different experiments, pretty much in the middle of the predicted range of energies.
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« Reply #48 on: July 03, 2012, 07:20:15 am »

Tomorrow is CERN going to announce the evidence of the Higgs boson

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/god-particle-found-cern-to-announce-evidence-of-the-higgs-boson-on-july-4/

This July 4th, there’s more than just the Independence of the United States that some of us in the U.S. will be celebrating. Scientists from The Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN), working on the Large Hadron Collider in Europe, are prepared to announce on July 4th the discovery of the elusive Higgs Boson, also known as the God Particle, with 99.99 percent certainty.

Read more: http://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/god-particle-found-cern-to-announce-evidence-of-the-higgs-boson-on-july-4/#ixzz1zYryfalt
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« Reply #49 on: July 04, 2012, 03:05:39 am »

Watching the conference.  It's important to remember this is early statistical data.  CMS isn't over 5-sigma yet, and I'm sure ATLAS isn't either (they're still going as I type this).  A lot more analysis will need to be done before a definite answer can be given.

In short, at least as far as CMS is concerned, they're at 4.9-sigma for a new boson that is in the expected range for the Higgs (specifically 125 +/- 0.6 GeV).

In truth, assuming it actually is a new particle (meaning not background fluctuation), having it NOT be the Higgs would be far more exciting.

Edit - Something to note is they observed a fair amount of excess in certain channels.  For instance, the gamma gamma decay appears to be about 2x what is predicted by the Standard Model.  This is one place where more analytical work and experimental data gathering will help a lot.  It's too early to tell if it's a statistical fluctuation or not.

But, this mass would be a relatively light Higgs (if that's what it is), so something would be required to explain this.  Supersymmetry is one way to do it, and it requires a small number of light Higgs bosons, if memory serves.  No matter what, the deviation from the Standard Model predictions are tantalizing, but they just don't know yet if they're true deviations or just statistical anomalies.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2012, 05:11:54 am by Tsa'räni » Logged
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« Reply #50 on: July 04, 2012, 09:17:10 pm »

They have been narrowing the mass of the Higgs down into this range for a long time. I strongly suspect that they really are seeing it. (Or seeing something totally new, but definitely measureable!)

This is an exciting day for particle physics!
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« Reply #51 on: July 07, 2012, 04:07:08 am »

Fantastic. Yet our trip down the rabbit hole has only just begun...

[Personal Theory]Not sure what is out there on the cutting edge, but I feel a renewed interest in the graviton will be coming soon. We [likely] have a Higgs, that's great, but we still need to find a way to describe the interactions of the Higgs field, that lead to the curvature in spacetime, that lead to gravity, while both satisfying the Theory of Relativity and Quantum Mechanics. I have a feeling mass and gravity have a similar relationship to that of Electromagnetism and the Weak Force, that they were both once a single force before undergoing symmetry breaking leading to separate mass and gravitation. If I can find a way to possibly pair my idea of spin as a force with the strong force, then an elegant model forms: bosonic pair production. Six fundamental forces, "decaying" in pairs of two (mass/gravity, electro/weak, spin/strong) from the one fundamental force that existed at the moment directly after the Big Bang.[/Personal Theory]

*Though recent happenings involving the idea of spin-charge-seperation are leading me to toy with the idea that there may be no such things as fundamental fermions, and what we may be seeing as fermions is just fundamental fields interacting with the fabric of spacetime (the quantum loops).
« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 04:10:40 am by Tsyal Maktoyu » Logged



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« Reply #52 on: July 09, 2012, 04:47:42 pm »

Very interesting indeed Smiley

I hope this is only the first great discovery for the LHC too... still got LHCb and ALICE even before future experiments.
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« Reply #53 on: July 10, 2012, 04:23:35 am »

http://www.oregonlive.com/health/index.ssf/2012/07/university_of_oregon_physicist.html
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« Reply #54 on: July 12, 2012, 01:53:29 am »

Fantastic. Yet our trip down the rabbit hole has only just begun...

(Personal Theory)Not sure what is out there on the cutting edge, but I feel a renewed interest in the graviton will be coming soon. We [likely] have a Higgs, that's great, but we still need to find a way to describe the interactions of the Higgs field, that lead to the curvature in spacetime, that lead to gravity, while both satisfying the Theory of Relativity and Quantum Mechanics. I have a feeling mass and gravity have a similar relationship to that of Electromagnetism and the Weak Force, that they were both once a single force before undergoing symmetry breaking leading to separate mass and gravitation. If I can find a way to possibly pair my idea of spin as a force with the strong force, then an elegant model forms: bosonic pair production. Six fundamental forces, "decaying" in pairs of two (mass/gravity, electro/weak, spin/strong) from the one fundamental force that existed at the moment directly after the Big Bang.(/Personal Theory)

I really like your thinking on this. You may be on to something! I especially like your idea of pairing the Higgs field with Gravity, and considering the Higgs field to be a new force. There might be some interesting relationship between the weak force and Higgs, as the Higgs boson has always been associated in some ways with the weak force.

Quote from: Tsyal Maktoyu
*Though recent happenings involving the idea of spin-charge-seperation are leading me to toy with the idea that there may be no such things as fundamental fermions, and what we may be seeing as fermions is just fundamental fields interacting with the fabric of spacetime (the quantum loops).

You are essentially describing string theory with different terminology.
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« Reply #55 on: July 12, 2012, 05:32:37 am »

Weak has always seemed like a...frankenforce to me. It seemed like a weird amalgamation of, well, I don't know. It interacted with all fermions directly, in some way or another, it is massive, and it itself carried characteristics from other bosons (charge, and I wonder if color aswell [quarks exchange color constantly, but I wonder if the color exchange process changes during beta decay?]).

If the Higgs itself happens to be massive, it would be the second massive boson, and thus exert itself at sub-C speeds. With that said, could an effect similar to CP violation be a possibility? They say it is spin 0, but the helicity of particles it interacts with might play a role. Maybe it could be the cause of neutrino oscillations? I think its worth a look into.

I wouldn't necessarily say its string theory. String theories mostly involve branes which are either extra dimensions, or separate from our space time in some way. I theorize that loops of space time might be the particles themselves, which bosons "latch" onto to create characteristic particles. Thus space becomes the particles themselves. A canvas so to speak, with bosons being the paint, and our universe the portrait. Smiley It's a hybrid of string and LQG, with our 4 dimensions being the "brane."
« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 05:36:48 am by Tsyal Maktoyu » Logged



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« Reply #56 on: July 12, 2012, 09:28:37 am »

Now that is a very interesting theory! Hmmm...
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« Reply #57 on: July 12, 2012, 04:22:34 pm »

I agree with Seze Mune that this is definitely an interesting theory.

The multidimensionality of string theory is a very interesting twist to conventional thinking. But I think the bottom line here is that 'empty space' is far from 'empty space'-- it is just non-baryonic. It may be that there is more than one thing filling 'empty space', such as gravity and the Higgs field. It is easy to believe there is more there than just those two things. But is very hard to 'measure' because it is 'transparent' to virtually everything but particles. It may even be that there is truly no 'unification', but that simply that two or more things (gravity, and everything else, for instance), just happen to interact in a functional, but perhaps very hard to accurately characterize, way.
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« Reply #58 on: July 13, 2012, 12:29:40 am »

I wish I knew more about the brane(s) theories, but I do wonder whether some of the effects might be precipitated by intersection with fields which might be the main operational matrix in one of the adjacent multiverses, but only tangentially involved in ours.

It's a screwball idea, but hey..... Wink
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« Reply #59 on: July 13, 2012, 05:02:12 pm »

There certainly have been more bizarre ideas postulated. Apparently, there is an idea that is popular where the universe as we know it is some sort of 3D projection from a kind of holographic 2D plane. That is kind of a challenge to wrap your head around.

One theory I do strongly question though, is the whole idea of multiverses. Especially multiverses that intersect, kind of like what you are suggesting. I think there are enough oddities in our own universe to explain without postualting that there could be other universes.
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