First translation feedback required

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Paul Frommer's
Language Workbook

[Luciancanad]

Kaltxì, everyone.

I am writing an Avatar fanfic, and just yesterday I attempted my first all-solo translation (I used to have a reviewer, but I lost contact with her  ) and I need some good-hearted children of Eywa willing to review them for me. It's nothing too hairy. I mostly need opinions with questions and word orders.

Waiting for answers 

[Ithisa Kíranem]

I can do that  Oeyä lì'fya leNa'vi ke lu kawng...

[Blue Elf]

Just put your text (or link) here, I think more people will be interested to read and correct it.

[Luciancanad]

Okay, I'll start posting then.

#1: "Oe tsun ngati tse’a" (Said by a character to announce that he's aware of someone else who's spying on him)

#2: "Pefya oel ngati srung si?" (Question #1, your standard line "How can I help you")

#3: "Kehe, Oe tsirme’a ngey tskxekeng" (I'm under the impression this is a no-brainer, but I'm making sure nonetheless)

#4: "Oel tslam. Ngal lu nìprrte’ van ‘ì’awn, oel sngarmä’i ‘efu nì’awtu" (This one I'm not sure about the first sentence, the translation was a bit direct. Also, I worry a bit about my use of "van". I did a deal of analogy to place it there, hence I'm not sure if it's correct)

I think this is enough for the first post. Whatever issue I believe they have was explained above, but beside it, I'd like correction or reassurance on the order I placed the words (As in, the correct happen to be "Oe tsun tse'a ngati") and pointing-outs regarding the uses of the affixes (-l and -ti especially)

Irayo, nawma lì'fya aytsamsiyu! 

[Tirea Aean]

Okay, I'll start posting then.

#1: "Oe tsun ngati tsive’a" (Said by a character to announce that he's aware of someone else who's spying on him)

#2: "Pefya tsun oe ngaru srung sivi?" (Question #1, your standard line "How can I help you")

#3: "Kehe, Oel tsame’a ngey tskxekengit" (I'm under the impression this is a no-brainer, but I'm making sure nonetheless) //unless you really meant to say "I was seeing..." then it WOULd have been ìrm

#4: "Oe tslam. Ngal lu nìprrte’ van ‘ì’awn, oel sngarmä’i ‘efu nì’awtu" (This one I'm not sure about the first sentence, the translation was a bit direct. Also, I worry a bit about my use of "van". I did a deal of analogy to place it there, hence I'm not sure if it's correct) //It would help to see the English of what you meant to say here... I didn't get to fix this because I wasn't sure what you were trying to say

I think this is enough for the first post. Whatever issue I believe they have was explained above, but beside it, I'd like correction or reassurance on the order I placed the words (As in, the correct happen to be "Oe tsun tse'a ngati") and pointing-outs regarding the uses of the affixes (-l and -ti especially)

Irayo, ma nawma lì'fyayä aysamsiyu! 

[Blue Elf]

Damn, Tirea Aean was faster, you I'll add some explanations only:

Okay, I'll start posting then.
Damn, Tirea Aean was faster, so I just add some explanations:
#1: "Oe tsun ngati tse’a" (Said by a character to announce that he's aware of someone else who's spying on him)

Oe tsun ngati tsive’a. also other word orders are possible: Oe tsun tsive'a ngati / Oel ngati tsun tsive'a.
tsun is modal verb and controlled verb (tse'a here) must be in subjunctive form (<iv> infix). All other is correct

#2: "Pefya oel ngati srung si?" (Question #1, your standard line "How can I help you")

Pefya tsun oe ngaru srung sivi?
Srung si is intransitive verb, therefore you use not patientive for object (indirect here), but dative.

#4: "Oel tslam. Ngal lu nìprrte’ van ‘ì’awn, oel sngarmä’i ‘efu nì’awtu" (This one I'm not sure about the first sentence, the translation was a bit direct. Also, I worry a bit about my use of "van". I did a deal of analogy to place it there, hence I'm not sure if it's correct)

ìì... ke tslam oe. Try to post English original

Irayo, nawma lì'fya aytsamsiyu! 

Nìprrte' ma 'eylan

[Tirea Aean]

Back in the ninja business baby

[Luciancanad]

Comments to your corrections:

#1: Bleh, stupid foreign grammar rules  but yay nonetheless 

#2: Holy Eywa, did I really translate that as "How I help you?"?! 

#3: Yes, it is "I was seeing" (I was *watching* if you want to be precise). The character was watching the other practice when she got spotted. And GAAAH those suffixes! 

#4: Yeah, this one's a tough cookie. I'm not sure of half I wrote there.    Orig is: "I understand. You are welcome to stay, I was starting to feel alone"

Goodbye phrase: Why the -yä and damn those contractions! How am I supposed to know when they contract and when they don't?! >_< (First one to answer "Studying" gets their tswin ripped off ¬¬ )

[Ithisa Kíranem]

I understand. You are welcome to stay, I was starting to feel alone

Oe omum. Zola'u nìprrte, oe slamu nì'awtu.

Literally, "I know. You came in pleasure, I have become lonely."

I think that somebody else can have a better translation...

By the way, I didn't see any contractions in anyone's translation...did you mean oe instead of oel? That is because the verb didn't take an object. Remember this: if you don't have a word with -ti or -it in the sentence, usually you don't want -l or -ìl on anything.

-yä is used for possessive, like English's -'s. For example, oeyä ikran, my ikran.

[Kemaweyan]

Oe omum. Zola'u nìprrte, oe slamu nì'awtu.

Actually nì'awtu is an adverb and I think we could not use it here, but we need an adjective. I expect it could be le'awtu ("alone" - adj.), but this word is not confirmed by Pawl.

[Luciancanad]

I understand. You are welcome to stay, I was starting to feel alone

Oe omum. Zola'u nìprrte, oe slamu nì'awtu.

Literally, "I know. You came in pleasure, I have become lonely."

I think that somebody else can have a better translation...

By the way, I didn't see any contractions in anyone's translation...did you mean oe instead of oel? That is because the verb didn't take an object. Remember this: if you don't have a word with -ti or -it in the sentence, usually you don't want -l or -ìl on anything.

-yä is used for possessive, like English's -'s. For example, oeyä ikran, my ikran.

Why can't it be "Understand"? there is such a word in the dictionary. And what was wrong with the way the other was written?

Tirea Aean contracted my "aytsamsiyu" into "aysamsiyu"

Ok then. I do believe there was no need for that suffix in Aean's corrected goodbye line... (Irayo, ma nawma lì'fyayä aysamsiyu)

[Ithisa Kíranem]

Yeah. I didn't look up the dictionary, and I didn't look up it. My bad.

Aytsamsiyu -> aysamsiyu is NOT called contraction. It is "lenition." It happens whenever you put ay+, me+, pxe+, and several other prefixes. The rules are not dropping a letter, but this:

ts -> s
t -> s
px -> p
tx -> t
kx -> k
p -> f
k -> h

For example, the plural of "palulukan" is not "aypalulukan" but "ayfalulukan", and the dual of "koren" is not "mekoren" but "mehoren".

A very VERY good grammar resource is Na'vi in a Nutshell,
http://www.learnnavi.org/docs/Navi_in_a_Nutshell.pdf

[Luciancanad]

Yeah, I'm aware. It's just that I have a bit of a hard time using the guide properly. I was taught a different language's grammar rules and taught myself english, so had very little contact with its own.

For example: I haven't the foggiest idea of what lenition is supposed to mean 

[Tirea Aean]

Yeah, I'm aware. It's just that I have a bit of a hard time using the guide properly. I was taught a different language's grammar rules and taught myself english, so had very little contact with its own.

For example: I haven't the foggiest idea of what lenition is supposed to mean 

don't worry about it, just keep asking questions, associate the words with ideas, pictures, etc., practicing sentences, and learning by correction. when you have learned enough to start conversations, join in and learn by immersion.

you don't have to learn the technical way with all these big linguistic terms.

[Luciancanad]

That's the plan 

Now, back in subject: I'd very much like someone to explain what was/is wrong with the way I translated the last sentence (the welcome to stay/feeling lonely one)