Local adpositions

Started by Na'rìghawnu, March 03, 2010, 02:51:21 AM

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Na'rìghawnu

We lack many basic local adpositions, like:

behind (location; but also the movement "to the place behind of" is required)
(E) The Nantang is behind this tree.
(D) Der Viperwolf ist hinter diesem Baum.
(L) ***lupus post arborem est.

on [location "on top of"]
(E) Jake sits on a horse.
(D) Jake sitzt auf einem Pferd.
(L) Jacobus in equo sedet.

onto [movement "to the top of"]
(E) He jumps onto the rock.
(D) Er springt auf den Felsen.
(L) In lapidem saltat.

around (movement)
(E) He runs around the tree.
(D) Er rennt um den Baum herum.
(L) Circa/circum arborem currit.

at [location "close to"]
(E) Jake is sitting at the (camp-)fire.
(D) Jake sitzt am Feuer.
(L) Jacobus ad ignem sedet.

into [movement "to the inner part of"]
(E) He walks into the forest. / He goes into the hometree.
(D) Er geht in den Wald (hinein). / Er geht in den Heimatbaum (hinein).
(L) In silvam it. / In ***arborem it.

Maybe a verb ,,to enter", like in
,,He enters the house" [Is this correct in English? In German it is ,,Er betritt das Haus", also in Latin ,,Domum intrat". In this case there is no adposition needed.] We have got fpxäkìm, but don't know, how to use it. Is it transitive (so just getting on object and no adposition), or else?

through [movement, starting from one side, passing, ending on the other side; or just: passing (not including the sense of start and end]
(E) He came to us through the forest.
(D) Er kam durch den Wald zu uns.
(L) Per silvam ad nos venit.

down [motion from above to a less higher level]
(E) He jumps down/from? the tree.
(D) Er springt vom Baum herunter.
(L) De arbore saltat.

above [located on a higher level]
(E) These rocks float above the ground.
(D) Diese Steine schweben über der Erde.
(L) Hi lapides etiam super terram pendunt.

against [movement towards a solid thing, finally hitting it]
(E) The ikran couldn't stop and crashed against the rock.
(D) Der Ikran konnte nicht mehr anhalten und schlug gegen den Felsen.
(L) Ikran ~~~ et contra lapidem volavit.

past/around? [movement, passing by a place, not endering it, but moving around it]
(E) The went around? the forest.
(D) Sie gingen um den Wald herum. = Sie umgingen den Wald.
(L) Praeter silvam ierunt.

over/trans? [movement, passing a place, which is on a lower level, by jumping/flying/...]
(E) He jumped over? the rock.
(D) Er sprang über den Felsen (hinweg).
(L) Trans lapidem saltavit.

---

Besides that, we should ask, which adpositions require lenition!
It's not clear about:
äo, eo, fa, fpi, ftu, ìlä, ka, kip.

And what is the difference between "ftu - from (direction)" and "ta - from (different usages)"?


Skyinou

Through [movement, different from across=ka?]
(E) Walking through a dream
(E) He ran through the door
Let's rock with The Tanners!

Lance R. Casey

From our current vocabulary:

Quote from: Na'rìghawnu on March 03, 2010, 02:51:21 AM
We lack many basic local adpositions, like:

behind (location; but also the movement "to the place behind of" is required)
(E) The Nantang is behind this tree.
(D) Der Viperwolf ist hinter diesem Baum.
(L) ***lupus post arborem est.

above [located on a higher level]
(E) These rocks float above the ground.
(D) Diese Steine schweben über der Erde.
(L) Hi lapides etiam super terram pendunt.
'Ìm and 'em, extracted from ne'ìm backwards and ta'em from above. Explicit confirmation would be good, though.

Quote from: Na'rìghawnu on March 03, 2010, 02:51:21 AM
Maybe a verb ,,to enter", like in
,,He enters the house" [Is this correct in English? In German it is ,,Er betritt das Haus", also in Latin ,,Domum intrat". In this case there is no adposition needed.] We have got fpxäkìm, but don't know, how to use it. Is it transitive (so just getting on object and no adposition), or else?
fpxäkìm enter

Quote from: Na'rìghawnu on March 03, 2010, 02:51:21 AM
down [motion from above to a less higher level]
(E) He jumps down/from? the tree.
(D) Er springt vom Baum herunter.
(L) De arbore saltat.
Tìng nari nekll (source)
See below

Adverb, kefyak:

Po spä nekll utralftu
He jumps down from the tree

Quote from: Na'rìghawnu on March 03, 2010, 02:51:21 AM
past/around? [movement, passing by a place, not endering it, but moving around it]
(E) The went around? the forest.
(D) Sie gingen um den Wald herum. = Sie umgingen den Wald.
(L) Praeter silvam ierunt.
ftem pass by (something)

// Lance R. Casey

Na'rìghawnu

Quotefpxäkìm enter
As said:
QuoteWe have got fpxäkìm, but don't know, how to use it. Is it transitive (so just getting on object and no adposition), or else?


Quoteftem pass by (something)
That's a verb. Maybe in English there is nothing like the German/Latin preposition "an ... vorbei (or) um ... herum"/"praeter", but for the sake of making Na'vi not so much "English", maybe there could be included such an adposition. Would be something like "We went praeter the forest" (= We started at some point, went to the entrance of the forest, and came to the opposite side, but we did not pass the forest, we took the way to the left (or right) and walked to the other side outside of the forest, but close to it's edge.)


Lance R. Casey

Quote from: Na'rìghawnu on March 03, 2010, 09:44:55 AM
Quotefpxäkìm enter
As said:
QuoteWe have got fpxäkìm, but don't know, how to use it. Is it transitive (so just getting on object and no adposition), or else?

Oh, boy. How on 'Rrta did I manage to miss that, even quoting it!?  :-[ (Perhaps doing this on a rushed lunch hour is not the best of ideas...)

As for ftu vs. ta, my guess is that the former is strictly spatial. Do you think it would be too much to ask for a complete adposition list, marked for lenition, and with notes of scope? :)

// Lance R. Casey

Na'rìghawnu


QuoteDo you think it would be too much to ask for a complete adposition list, marked for lenition, and with notes of scope? Smiley

No. I think, that this would be a great idea and really helpful!  :)

'eylan na'viyä

instead of just asking for a complete list we could also consider this thread http://forum.learnnavi.org/vocabulary-expansion/non-english-concepts/?topicseen

and make up some unconventional interesting adposition-concepts for inspiration.

i try to come up with some here:

on+in : eg: a ship is partly over and partly under water; when you step into mud; the arrow sticks in a tree

shape following: eg: parallel things; a twiner plant that grows on a trunk; a path that follows a stream; a fruit that is hold by leaves that form a goblet; clothes that fit well

Kì'eyawn

Quote from: 'eylan na'viyä on March 05, 2010, 08:21:06 AM
shape following: eg: parallel things; a twiner plant that grows on a trunk; a path that follows a stream; a fruit that is hold by leaves that form a goblet; clothes that fit well

I really like that one, ma 'eylan.  It's very...biological, and something i think the Na'vi would deem important.
eo Eywa oe 'ia

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