Author Topic: "funnier than I thought"  (Read 1324 times)

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Offline Wllìm

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"funnier than I thought"
« on: February 15, 2016, 12:56:27 pm »
Let's say you're playing a game and you want to say This game is funnier than I thought.

A naive translation could be:

Fìuvan lu hiyìk to fwa oe fpamìl.

However, this feels wrong to me, since to now compares "the game" and "the fact that I was thinking". So the literal meaning would be:

This game is funnier than the fact that I was thinking.

which doesn't make sense. Another attempt could be

Fìuvan lu hiyìk to säfpìl oeyä.
This game is funnier than my thought / idea.

but this suffers from the same problem.

Of course you can try to describe it, but even then I don't get a clear sentence:

Fìuvan lu hiyìk to fneuvan a oel fpamìl futa awnga sivi.
This game is funnier than the kind of game of which I thought we would play.

but this seems much too complex for a such simple thing to say.

There are many other examples of this construction (this is going to be harder than I hoped, I'll arrive later than I said before, my brother annoys me more than I can stand  ;D, ...)

Am I overlooking something obvious here? Is there some way to say this easily?
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Offline Vawmataw

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Re: "funnier than I thought"
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2016, 01:03:49 pm »
Good question.

What is compared with what?
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Offline Wllìm

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Re: "funnier than I thought"
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2016, 01:12:21 pm »
Good question.

What is compared with what?

I think something like the actual game and the idea of the game that I had in my mind before we started playing...
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Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: "funnier than I thought"
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2016, 06:44:41 pm »
Fìuvan lu hiyìk to fnel a oe fpamìl.
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Offline Vawmataw

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Re: "funnier than I thought"
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2016, 07:00:46 pm »
Fìuvan lu hiyìk to fnel a oe fpamìl.
:D
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Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: "funnier than I thought"
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2016, 07:36:05 pm »
Or maybe even just

  Fìuvan lu hiyìk to oe fpamìl.

because to is a particle. Maybe there is no reason to use a noun.
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Offline Wllìm

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Re: "funnier than I thought"
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2016, 04:10:47 am »
Fìuvan lu hiyìk to fnel a oe fpamìl.

Ah, that's a good one, the meaning seems to be very close to the original. I'm not sure that fnel works in all such situations, though...

Or maybe even just

  Fìuvan lu hiyìk to oe fpamìl.

because to is a particle. Maybe there is no reason to use a noun.

I've never seen to without a noun before... I think that in this sentence to would be more like a conjunction? :-\
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Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: "funnier than I thought"
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2016, 09:31:35 am »
I've never seen to without a noun before... I think that in this sentence to would be more like a conjunction? :-\

I don't remember such examples too, but theoretically that would not be forbidden because to is a particle, not an adposition and doesn't require a noun :-\
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Offline Plumps

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Re: "funnier than I thought"
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2016, 09:37:06 am »
I wouldn’t say so. It’s a strange thing in between. If it’s core meaning is “than”, then you need something to refer it to.

How about just

Fìuvan lu hiyìk to fwa oe fpamìl.
This game is funnier than (the fact that) I thought.

We have this use of to refering to whole sentences like, Ftue lu fwa taron ngonga ioangit to fwa taron pumit a lu walak sì win.

If you just use to oe, I would immediately interpret that as to mean “than I” as a comparison as in po to oe lu koak, “he’s older than I am”

Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: "funnier than I thought"
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2016, 10:11:20 am »
But that happens in other languages too:

  This game is funnier than I thought

Why you don't interpret this «than I» as you said about to oe? :-\
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Offline Blue Elf

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Re: "funnier than I thought"
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2016, 02:13:46 pm »
But that happens in other languages too:

  This game is funnier than I thought

Why you don't interpret this «than I» as you said about to oe? :-\
I think it understand it. Let's see:
Fìuvan lu hiyìk to oe -> This game is funnier than me (than I am - this is more correct in English, I think)
Fìuvan lu hiyìk to fwa oe fpamìl. -> This game is funnier than I though. In this sentence "than I" is not same as that one in first sentence. You do not compare something with you, but something with something you think.

What about this version:
Fìuvan lu hiyìk to fwa oe fpamìl tsateri. -> this game is funnier than I thought about that (game).
IMHO still not perfect, but seems good enough.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: "funnier than I thought"
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2016, 02:27:42 pm »
Fìuvan lu hiyìk to oe -> This game is funnier than me (than I am - this is more correct in English, I think)

There is not to oe, there is to oe fpamìl ;)

What about this version:
Fìuvan lu hiyìk to fwa oe fpamìl tsateri. -> this game is funnier than I thought about that (game).
IMHO still not perfect, but seems good enough.

In this this case it should be to fwa oel fpamìl, IMO:

  Fìuvan lu hiyìk to fwa oel fpamìl tsateri.
  This game is funnier than that thing that I thought about that.

Otherwise it would mean This game is funnier than the fact that I thought about that.
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Offline Blue Elf

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Re: "funnier than I thought"
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2016, 02:53:10 pm »
Fìuvan lu hiyìk to oe -> This game is funnier than me (than I am - this is more correct in English, I think)

There is not to oe, there is to oe fpamìl ;)
That's ok, I used it this way to demonstrate difference
Quote
What about this version:
Fìuvan lu hiyìk to fwa oe fpamìl tsateri. -> this game is funnier than I thought about that (game).
IMHO still not perfect, but seems good enough.

In this this case it should be to fwa oel fpamìl, IMO:

  Fìuvan lu hiyìk to fwa oel fpamìl tsateri.
  This game is funnier than that thing that I thought about that.

Otherwise it would mean This game is funnier than the fact that I thought about that.
That's seems true, but I'm not sure. fwa oe fpamìl tsateri seems to be ambiguous, agentive doesn't give much sense as adposition is used. Hard problem.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2016, 02:59:37 pm by Blue Elf »
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Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: "funnier than I thought"
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2016, 03:03:23 pm »
Just my weird idea:

Fìuvan lu hiyìk to tìronsrel uvanä (a lamu oer).
This game is funnier than the imagination of the game (that I had).

Or

Fìuvan lu hiyìk to tìronsrel a lamu oer tsateri.
This game is funnier than the imagination (of the game) that I had about it.

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Re: "funnier than I thought"
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2016, 03:55:18 pm »
Fìuvan lu hiyìk to pum a (tsari) fpolìl oe.

Not a literal translation, but the meaning is close, it is not excessively long and the comparison is noun to noun. Sounds good to me ;D
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Offline Vawmataw

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Re: "funnier than I thought"
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2016, 04:18:20 pm »
Other way to say it?
Fpolìl oel futa fìuvan limvu hìyìk nìnän.
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Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: "funnier than I thought"
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2016, 04:46:49 pm »
Fìuvan lu hiyìk to pum a (tsari) fpolìl oe.

Not a literal translation, but the meaning is close, it is not excessively long and the comparison is noun to noun. Sounds good to me ;D

No, it means that you're comparing two games. Pum always means another instance of something and can't refer to the same thing.

That's seems true, but I'm not sure. fwa oe fpamìl tsateri seems to be ambiguous, agentive doesn't give much sense as adposition is used. Hard problem.

There is a big difference. ... a oe fpamìl describes a fact that I thought something, but ... a oel fpamìl describes what I thought, my thoughts.

Other way to say it?
Fpolìl oel futa fìuvan limvu hìyìk nìnän.

I think it could work. But as you said, it's another way :)
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Offline Plumps

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Re: "funnier than I thought"
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2016, 04:55:30 am »
But that happens in other languages too:

  This game is funnier than I thought

Why you don't interpret this «than I» as you said about to oe? :-\

True. Clipping happens all the time.

Maybe I’m not as adventurous as you ;) :D Maybe I just fear that this yields other parallel structures to English or other languages that simply aren’t right within the grammatical bounds of the language.

For me, to needs to connect to a noun or pronoun, same as adpositions. So the distribution of *… to oe fpamìl is wrong to me.

When I analyse this it’s:

This game is funny. > Fìuvan lu hiyìk.
I thought that this game is funny. > Oel fpamìl futa fìuvan lu hiyìk.
This is my thought. > Fì’u lu säfpìl oeyä.
This game is funnier than my thought. > Fìuvan to säfpìl oeyä lu hiyìk.
This game is funnier than this (which (is my thought which) is that this game is funny). > Fìuvan to fì’u a (= fwa) oel fpamìl hiyìk lu.

Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: "funnier than I thought"
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2016, 06:32:11 am »
Probably you're right, but why to is a particle? Why it isn't just an adposition if that should be used with nouns or pronouns only? :-\
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Offline Vawmataw

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Re: "funnier than I thought"
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2016, 07:24:55 am »
This game is funny, but not as I thought.
Fìuvan lu hìyìk, slä ke tengfya oe srefoley.

Edit: http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/308581/what-is-compared-in-than-i-thought/308583#308583
Read the whole page.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2016, 07:38:23 am by Vawmataw »
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