Learn Na'vi > Advanced Grammar

'to' with the genitive?

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Wllìm:
This came up during the Lerngruppe, the weekly German Na'vi class on TeamSpeak, and we couldn't reach an answer. Furia vingkap fì'ut, irayo ma Tanri :)

Consider the following sentence:

Neytiriyä pa'li to Tsu'teyä pa'li lu win.
"Neytiri's pa'li than Tsu'tey's pa'li is faster."
Neytiri's pa'li is faster than Tsu'tey's pa'li.

Can we also say:

Neytiriyä to Tsu'teyä pa'li lu win.
"Neytiri's than Tsu'tey's pa'li is faster."
Neytiri's pa'li is faster than Tsu'tey's pa'li.

In other words, can to be used with the genitive? Does anyone know of examples showing this usage?

Some remarks:

* In Horen leNa'vi, section 6.2.7 is about to, but nothing is said about with which cases it is possible. (Interestingly enough, Horen doesn't even say or give examples of cases other than the subjective; indeed, until a year or so I used to think that only the subjective would be possible with to.)


* With sì we can say

Neytiriyä sì Tsu'teyä pa'li lu win.
Neytiri's and Tsu'tey's pa'li(s) is / are (?) fast.

So if to indeed behaves like sì, as is often said, then Neytiriyä to Tsu'teyä pa'li should also be possible.

(Interesting side-question: if we say Neytiri's and Tsu'tey's pa'li do we mean one pa'li associated with both Neytiri and Tsu'tey, or two pa'lis? Maybe this is ambiguous?)


* Of course, the same question is also of interest for other cases: to with the dative? Or even the topical?

Eana Unil:
I wouldn't see a reason why we couldn't.  :-\ ??? But that's just my opinion, doesn't have to be correct :)

My pa'li is faster than yours.
Mein Pa'li ist schneller als deins.
Oeyä pa'li to ngeyä lu win.

I see no problem there  ???
Using pum would look like a bit too much / unnecessary here imho.


Topical could maybe be like
Pa'liri oeyä to ngeyä lu win.
but it kinda sounds wrong to me. Or maybe I'm just not used to it, but I kinda like it!


Maybe it would be best to wait for other opinions and/or ask Karyu Pawl.


Tìsung; too bad that I've missed Lerngruppe today, but I just dropped dead on my couch after I got home and couldn't move until I realized it's 10:30 pm already. T_T

Vawmataw:

--- Quote ---Adjective comparatives and superlatives (big, bigger, biggest) are marked with the particle to, which, like an adposition, may come before the noun compared to or be enclitic on it.
--- End quote ---
What do you compare? The possessor or the possessee?
Well, what do you think?

Tìtstewan:
That's interesting.... But <genitive> to <genetive> X sounds and looks weird for me, somehow.

As far as I understood the role of to, it is used mainly to compare X with Y, and if X is the same as Y, I would use pum to avoid repetition of the same word/object like:

Neytiriyä pa'li to Tsu'teyä pum lu win.
Neytiri's pa'li than Tsu'tey's one is faster.
Neytiri's pa'li is faster than Tsu'tey's one.


--- Quote ---So if to indeed behaves like sì, as is often said, then Neytiriyä to Tsu'teyä pa'li should also be possible.
--- End quote ---
sì =/= to

sì lists/connects words, to compares words.
[Neytiriyä sì Tsu'teyä] pa'li lu win.
but
[Neytiriyä] to [Tsu'teyä pa'li] lu win.
makes not much sense... because, Neytiri's <what?> is faster than Tsu'tey's pa'li

Vawmataw:
What can replace a noun? A pronoun!

Mein Pa'li ist schneller als deins.
What is deins? A pronoun. What does it replace? Pa'li.

Oeyä pa'li to ngeyä lu win.
What is ngeyä? A pronoun. What does it replace? Nothing.


--- Quote ---The genitive can be used predicatively, as in fìtseng lu awngeyä this place is ours. However, the prop noun pum possession, thing possessed is more often used, kelku ngeyä lu tsawl; pum oeyä lu hì’i your house is large; mine is small.
--- End quote ---

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