Author Topic: a thought on tsamsiyu  (Read 1775 times)

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Offline Tswusayona Tsamsiyu

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a thought on tsamsiyu
« on: September 02, 2011, 01:16:45 pm »
why is "warrior" tsamsiyu and not tsamtu, and why not use the more general verb wem (wemyu)?
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oer fko syaw tswusayona tsamsiyu

Offline Tanri

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Re: a thought on tsamsiyu
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2011, 02:32:04 pm »
Both -yu and -tu create a noun that means a person, but each one is different.

-yu means "person that is performing the action" (subject of the verb)
  tsam si -> tsamsiyu   (doing war -> warrior)
  kar -> karyu             (to teach - teacher)

-tu means "person, which an action is applied to" (object of the verb)
  spe’e -> spe’etu        (capture -> captive) , this is currently the only example of -tu used on verb
 

The distiction between tsamsiyu and wemyu in Na’vi looks to me exactly the same as in English: tsamsiyu - warrior, wemyu - fighter. I think that wemyu, even when almost unused, is perfectly correct.
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Offline Key'ìl Nekxetse

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Re: a thought on tsamsiyu
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2011, 02:38:02 pm »
To me, "warrior" implies a higher level of training and skill than "fighter", so maybe wemyu just isn't used as much.
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Offline Tswusayona Tsamsiyu

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Re: a thought on tsamsiyu
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2011, 02:46:56 pm »
Both -yu and -tu create a noun that means a person, but each one is different.

-yu means "person that is performing the action" (subject of the verb)
  tsam si -> tsamsiyu   (doing war -> warrior)
  kar -> karyu             (to teach - teacher)

-tu means "person, which an action is applied to" (object of the verb)
  spe’e -> spe’etu        (capture -> captive) , this is currently the only example of -tu used on verb
 

The distiction between tsamsiyu and wemyu in Na’vi looks to me exactly the same as in English: tsamsiyu - warrior, wemyu - fighter. I think that wemyu, even when almost unused, is perfectly correct.
I know. I meant why put -yu on tsam si instead of just putting -tu on tsam.
Nivume Na'vit, fpivìl nìNa'vi, kivame na Na'vi.....
oer fko syaw tswusayona tsamsiyu

Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: a thought on tsamsiyu
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2011, 02:49:09 pm »
Maybe Cameron does not like its sound :)
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Offline Kamean

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Re: a thought on tsamsiyu
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2011, 02:56:19 pm »
Maybe Cameron does not like its sound :)
Maybe. Tsamsiyu are one of the first words. Maybe Cameron created it? And Paul created tsam from tsamsiyu? :-\
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Offline Txura Rolyu

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Re: a thought on tsamsiyu
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2011, 02:58:29 pm »
That is most likely. Fighter does imply somebody that isnt trained in the art of war. It is a small difference but gives an entirely different meaning when describing somebody.
Neytiri: Now you choose your woman. This you must feel inside. If she also chooses you, move quick like I showed.
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Offline wm.annis

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Re: a thought on tsamsiyu
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2011, 03:22:47 pm »
-tu means "person, which an action is applied to" (object of the verb)
  spe’e -> spe’etu        (capture -> captive) , this is currently the only example of -tu used on verb

It does not. :)  Most of the time -tu is used on non-verbs to form agent nouns: tsulfätu master, expert; pamtseotu musician.

Frommer has given us no other guidance on -tu on verbs.
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Offline Key'ìl Nekxetse

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Re: a thought on tsamsiyu
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2011, 03:38:20 pm »
Is there any chance that a verb is preferable to a noun in "-yu" constructions, thus requiring "tsam si" as opposed to "tsam"?
Key'ìl Nekxetse on "The Revolutionists"
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Offline Tanri

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Re: a thought on tsamsiyu
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2011, 03:56:17 pm »
It does not. :)  Most of the time -tu is used on non-verbs to form agent nouns: tsulfätu master, expert; pamtseotu musician.
Oh, thank you for making things clear. I should really look at canon more frequently and with more attention, before publish some misinformation. ::)
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Is there any chance that a verb is preferable to a noun in "-yu" constructions, thus requiring "tsam si" as opposed to "tsam"?
I don't dare to even guess. :D
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Offline wm.annis

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Re: a thought on tsamsiyu
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2011, 04:15:08 pm »
Is there any chance that a verb is preferable to a noun in "-yu" constructions, thus requiring "tsam si" as opposed to "tsam"?

It may only be used on verbs, so that is the right track to follow: http://wiki.learnnavi.org/index.php/Canon#Art-related_Vocabulary (the last section, "a followup regarding tu").
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A Na'vi Reference Grammar

Offline 'Oma Tirea

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Re: a thought on tsamsiyu
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2011, 10:56:08 pm »
Somewhat related: maybe there was this verb tsam si that was either overlooked all these months, or maybe it grew obsolete over time like no.  Thoughts?

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