a thought on tsamsiyu

Started by Tswusayona Tsamsiyu, September 02, 2011, 01:16:45 PM

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Tswusayona Tsamsiyu

why is "warrior" tsamsiyu and not tsamtu, and why not use the more general verb wem (wemyu)?
Nivume Na'vit, fpivìl nìNa'vi, kivame na Na'vi.....
oer fko syaw tswusayona tsamsiyu

Tanri

Both -yu and -tu create a noun that means a person, but each one is different.

-yu means "person that is performing the action" (subject of the verb)
  tsam si -> tsamsiyu   (doing war -> warrior)
  kar -> karyu             (to teach - teacher)

-tu means "person, which an action is applied to" (object of the verb)
  spe'e -> spe'etu        (capture -> captive) , this is currently the only example of -tu used on verb
 

The distiction between tsamsiyu and wemyu in Na'vi looks to me exactly the same as in English: tsamsiyu - warrior, wemyu - fighter. I think that wemyu, even when almost unused, is perfectly correct.
Tätxawyu akì'ong.

Key'ìl Nekxetse

To me, "warrior" implies a higher level of training and skill than "fighter", so maybe wemyu just isn't used as much.
Key'ìl Nekxetse on "The Revolutionists"
~$ life --help
The program life received signal SIGSEV. Core dumped.

Tswusayona Tsamsiyu

Quote from: Tanri on September 02, 2011, 02:32:04 PM
Both -yu and -tu create a noun that means a person, but each one is different.

-yu means "person that is performing the action" (subject of the verb)
  tsam si -> tsamsiyu   (doing war -> warrior)
  kar -> karyu             (to teach - teacher)

-tu means "person, which an action is applied to" (object of the verb)
  spe'e -> spe'etu        (capture -> captive) , this is currently the only example of -tu used on verb
 

The distiction between tsamsiyu and wemyu in Na'vi looks to me exactly the same as in English: tsamsiyu - warrior, wemyu - fighter. I think that wemyu, even when almost unused, is perfectly correct.
I know. I meant why put -yu on tsam si instead of just putting -tu on tsam.
Nivume Na'vit, fpivìl nìNa'vi, kivame na Na'vi.....
oer fko syaw tswusayona tsamsiyu

Kemaweyan

Maybe Cameron does not like its sound :)
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Kamean

Quote from: Kemaweyan on September 02, 2011, 02:49:09 PM
Maybe Cameron does not like its sound :)
Maybe. Tsamsiyu are one of the first words. Maybe Cameron created it? And Paul created tsam from tsamsiyu? :-\
Tse'a ngal ke'ut a krr fra'uti kame.


Txura Rolyu

That is most likely. Fighter does imply somebody that isnt trained in the art of war. It is a small difference but gives an entirely different meaning when describing somebody.
Quote from: Ekirä on March 30, 2011, 04:45:34 PMNeytiri: Now you choose your woman. This you must feel inside. If she also chooses you, move quick like I showed.
Jake: How will I know if she chooses me?
Neytiri: She will try to kill you.
Jake: Outstanding. *takes out an ikran-catcher and walks through hometree looking for women*

wm.annis

Quote from: Tanri on September 02, 2011, 02:32:04 PM-tu means "person, which an action is applied to" (object of the verb)
  spe'e -> spe'etu        (capture -> captive) , this is currently the only example of -tu used on verb

It does not. :)  Most of the time -tu is used on non-verbs to form agent nouns: tsulfätu master, expert; pamtseotu musician.

Frommer has given us no other guidance on -tu on verbs.

Key'ìl Nekxetse

Is there any chance that a verb is preferable to a noun in "-yu" constructions, thus requiring "tsam si" as opposed to "tsam"?
Key'ìl Nekxetse on "The Revolutionists"
~$ life --help
The program life received signal SIGSEV. Core dumped.

Tanri

Quote from: wm.annis on September 02, 2011, 03:22:47 PM
It does not. :)  Most of the time -tu is used on non-verbs to form agent nouns: tsulfätu master, expert; pamtseotu musician.
Oh, thank you for making things clear. I should really look at canon more frequently and with more attention, before publish some misinformation. ::)
Ngaytxoa.

Quote from: Key'ìl Nekxetse on September 02, 2011, 03:38:20 PM
Is there any chance that a verb is preferable to a noun in "-yu" constructions, thus requiring "tsam si" as opposed to "tsam"?
I don't dare to even guess. :D
Tätxawyu akì'ong.

wm.annis

Quote from: Key'ìl Nekxetse on September 02, 2011, 03:38:20 PM
Is there any chance that a verb is preferable to a noun in "-yu" constructions, thus requiring "tsam si" as opposed to "tsam"?

It may only be used on verbs, so that is the right track to follow: http://wiki.learnnavi.org/index.php/Canon#Art-related_Vocabulary (the last section, "a followup regarding tu").

'Oma Tirea

Somewhat related: maybe there was this verb tsam si that was either overlooked all these months, or maybe it grew obsolete over time like no.  Thoughts?

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