Author Topic: Comparatives?  (Read 884 times)

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Offline Zikhnafemk

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Comparatives?
« on: April 05, 2015, 12:05:06 pm »
So, as I understand it, Na'vi is not supposed to have comparative or superlative forms; instead, you can just use the ordinary form of the adjective/adverb with to.
E.g., Yom nìwin frato tsapalulukan.
That makes perfect sense to me. Indo-European languages are very nitpicky when it comes to adjective/adverb comparison. ;D

But then in the dictionary we get the words nì'ul and nulkrr translated with English comparatives. Are those really the comparative forms of nìtxan and txankrr? If so, why do they exist? If not, how are you supposed to use them? ???
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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Comparatives?
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2015, 01:25:19 pm »
your use of frato is perfect. frato is indeed the superlative, as in your example:

Yom nìwin frato tsapalulukan.
That thanator eats faster than every other
That thanator eats the fastest.
That thanator eats the most quickly
etc. etc.


Usage of nìtxan and txankrr: There is no baseline or comparison; you are just saying that whatever it is, is a considerable degree or degree of time.

Ngeyä kxetse lor lu nìtxan. PF
Your tail is very beautiful.
(what is this comparing to? It's kind of not really comparing anything. imo, It's just saying the degree of beauty is higher than average)

Hufwa mefo leru muntxatu txankrr, mi lu munsnar hona tìflrr a na pum meyawnetuä amip nìwotx.PF
Although the two of them have been mates a long time, they still have all the adorable tenderness of new sweethearts.

Usage of nì'ul and nulkrr: Here, there isn't usually a baseline or comparison either; you are just saying that whatever it is, is more or longer than it was >0.0s ago.

Nga läpivawk nì’it nì’ul ko.PF
Tell me a bit more about yourself.

Ke tsun awnga pivey nulkrr—txew lok.PF
We can’t wait any longer—time is almost up.
(again, this isn't comparing to anything specific either.)

Usage of to and frato: There is an explicit comparison to one or more objects, or the entirety of the remainder of the entire set of that object.

Po to oe lu koak.PF
He is older than me.

Nìlun ayioi a’eoio ayeyktanä lu lor frato.PF
Of course the ceremonial wardrobes of the leaders are the most beautiful.

All example sentences taken verbatim from naviteri.org

Does that help at all?

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Offline Plumps

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Re: Comparatives?
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2015, 01:29:04 pm »
You don’t need special forms (except for swey and ’e’al).

nì’ul and nìnän are used when you don’t have a point of comparison:
Tsapalulukan yom nì’ul. “That thanator eats more.”
Rutxe, wem nìnän. “Please, fight less.”

You could be nitpicky and say that there is always an implied comparison but it has never come up.

nì’ul comes from ’ul “increase”, nulkrr from nì’ul krr as in layeiu oer krr nì’ul, “I’ll have more time”.


ninja’d by nawma Tirea :P

Offline Vawmataw

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Re: Comparatives?
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2015, 01:29:44 pm »
Extra info: Po to oe lu koak nì'ul is incorrect. ;)

Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Comparatives?
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2015, 01:41:16 pm »
Extra info: Po to oe lu koak nì'ul is incorrect. ;)
Or by other words: to translates not as "than", but "more than":

Po to oe lu koak -> He is older than me (He is more old than me)
Po to oe lu 'ewan -> He is younger than me (He is more young than me)
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Comparatives?
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2015, 01:43:56 pm »
ninja’d by nawma Tirea :P

but not a TOTAL ninja, because you added some things and words I forgot to bring up. :)

Extra info: Po to oe lu koak nì'ul is incorrect. ;)

And this. ^ But I have a feeling that OP knew that already:

instead, you can just use the ordinary form of the adjective/adverb with to.
[...]
But then in the dictionary we get the words nì'ul and nulkrr translated with English comparatives. [...]
why do they exist?[...]

And definitely this too, if it helps at all:

Extra info: Po to oe lu koak nì'ul is incorrect. ;)
Or by other words: to translates not as "than", but "more than":

Po to oe lu koak -> He is older than me (He is more old than me)
Po to oe lu 'ewan -> He is younger than me (He is more young than me)

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Offline Zikhnafemk

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Re: Comparatives?
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2015, 10:36:10 am »
:) That makes sense; a couple more details I’d like to have confirmed:
1. To can be translated as “more than” because it is enough by itself to make an adjective/adverb comparative, but that doesn’t mean that it can be used without an adjective/adverb. E.g., Nìtxan sunu oeru poruto, not *Sunu oeru poruto.
2. Nìtxan, nì'it and txankrr rather than nì'ul, nìnän and nulkrr (respectively) would be used together with to to form an explicit comparison. E.g., Txankrr hamahaw po oeto, not *Nulkrr hamahaw po oeto.
3. When an implicit comparison is being made based on an arbitrary adjective/adverb, nì'ul would be used only to emphasize the comparison. E.g., (watching a hexapede eating slowly:) Nìwin yom palulukan,
but (watching a hexapede eating quickly:) Nì'ul nìwin yom palulukan.

Is that right?
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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Comparatives?
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2015, 05:23:56 pm »
:) That makes sense; a couple more details I’d like to have confirmed:
Awesome :D

Quote
1. To can be translated as “more than” because it is enough by itself to make an adjective/adverb comparative, but that doesn’t mean that it can be used without an adjective/adverb. E.g., Nìtxan sunu oeru poruto, not *Sunu oeru poruto.

You can actually say both of those sentences.
a.) ['Uo] Sunu oeru poruto = "I like [something] more than s/he does."
b.) ['Uo] Nìtxan sunu oeru poruto = "I like [something] much more than s/he does."

Quote
2. Nìtxan, nì'it and txankrr rather than nì'ul, nìnän and nulkrr (respectively) would be used together with to to form an explicit comparison. E.g., Txankrr hamahaw po oeto, not *Nulkrr hamahaw po oeto.

Correct.

Quote
3. When an implicit comparison is being made based on an arbitrary adjective/adverb, nì'ul would be used only to emphasize the comparison.
E.g., (watching a hexapede eating slowly:) Nìwin yom palulukan,


but (watching a hexapede eating quickly:) Nì'ul nìwin yom palulukan.

Is that right?

If you just said:

c.) Nìwin yom palulukan.

I would get:

"The thanator eats quickly/fast."

and that's really it. Which means that relative to other animals, or even other palulukan, the palulukan eats at a relatively fast rate.

If you said:

d.) Nì'ul nìwin yom palulukan.

I would get:

"The thanator eats quicker/faster."

which means that there is some previous explicit point of comparison, or it's so obvious by context that there is no point in mentioning it. The thanator eats at a faster rate than some other thing that everyone knows what it is already.

Yes, you can do that too. But at least make sure people know what it is you are comparing to/against. Don't just opt to make every comparison blank; at least introduce the point of comparison and go from there using established context. Unless it's blatantly obvious.

EDIT: Actually, d.) can also mean that during a session of eating, the thanator begins to increase the rate at which it eats; It begins to eat faster than it was already previously eating.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2015, 05:30:03 pm by Tirea Aean »

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