Author Topic: different kinds of comparisons  (Read 1605 times)

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Offline Kì'eyawn

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different kinds of comparisons
« on: August 15, 2010, 10:04:02 pm »
Kaltxì, ma eylan leNa'vi.  I have a grammar question for you.

So, we know how to make, erm, adjective-type comparisons.  Like this:

Oe to nga lu koak / oe ngato lu loak (I am older than you)

But what about this?

I run faster than you — *Oe to nga nìwin tìran?

Or, here's a particularly fun one:
Neytiri likes Skypeople more than Tsu'tey

Thanks to the occasional ambiguities of English, this could either mean that Neytiri likes Humans more than Tsu'tey does, or that she actually prefers Humans to Tsu'tey—also possible.  Obviously, we'd have to decide which meaning was intended before we tried to translate this sentence into Na'vi.  But, in either case, can we?  My guess is the latter meaning could be reworded a little:

Tsu'teyri Neytiril Sawtuteti nulnew.

But for the former, could we say *Sawtute Neytiriru to Tsu'teyru sunu?

Fyape fpìl aynga, ma smuktu?
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Offline Taronyu

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Re: different kinds of comparisons
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2010, 12:20:10 am »
I would say this:

Neytiril to Tsu'teyìl sawtutet nulnew.

I believe that to must be used to specify the same argument - whether subject, object, predicate, complement, whatever: the same linguistic function. In:

Neytiri likes Skypeople more than Tsu'tey (likes skypeople)
Neytiri likes Sawtutue more than (she likes) Tsu'tey.

You can see that sky-people and tsu'tey are actually performing different functions. This would also be reflected in the morphology, as Tsu'tey would take the patientive -t in the second example, but the agentive -l in the first example. Make sense?

Offline Kì'eyawn

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Re: different kinds of comparisons
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2010, 02:20:32 pm »
I think i understand, ma Taronyu, but i think i'll probably find a workaround—or just avoid these kinds of comparisons—until we see some examples from Karyu Pawl.

Ngeyä tì'eyngìri ngaru irayo seiyi oe, ma 'eylan.  Srung soli nga oeru.
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Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: different kinds of comparisons
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2010, 01:46:05 pm »
I think the point still stands.

And for the original sentence I would give either:

Neytirir to Tsu'Teyru tawtute sunu

or

Neytirir tawtute to Tsu'Tey sunu

I don't think it's possible to make an ambiguous sentence this way as in English due to the fact that, as Taronyu says, the two arguments of to ought to be of the same constituent (because effectively to splits the constituent into two parts one of which is more than the other as it were).
« Last Edit: August 18, 2010, 02:11:20 pm by kewnya txamew'itan »
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Offline omängum fra'uti

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Re: different kinds of comparisons
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2010, 01:53:08 pm »
It occurs to me the other way that it might work out would be using "a" like you can with adpositions...

Neytirir a to Tsu'teu sawtute sunu

But that seems a bit sloppy or awkward.
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Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: different kinds of comparisons
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2010, 02:13:23 pm »
It does seem plausible to me that Omängum's solution would work, but it seems to me more awkward than putting both in the same case.

If you wish to use it as a suffix however then I can see it being more elegant e.g.:

Neytirir Tsu'Teyruto sawtute sunu vs Neytirir a Tsu'Teyto sawtute sunu
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Offline Plumps

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Re: different kinds of comparisons
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2010, 03:06:56 am »
Is there an update on this now?
Maybe something that was discussed during the workshop?

I have the same ›problem‹ now…
»The yerik runs faster than the hunter.« – Yerik to taronyu tul nìwin ???

Offline Kì'eyawn

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Re: different kinds of comparisons
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2010, 10:10:09 am »
Is there an update on this now?
Maybe something that was discussed during the workshop?

I have the same ›problem‹ now…
»The yerik runs faster than the hunter.« – Yerik to taronyu tul nìwin ???


It came up, but i don't remember if anything was definitively decided.  I think Karyu Pawl is letting it marinate a bit.

Ma William, ma Prrton, anybody...?
eo Eywa oe 'ia

Fra'uri tìyawnur oe täpivìng nìwotx...

 

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