Author Topic: "Either-or" questions  (Read 3413 times)

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Offline 'Oma Tirea

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"Either-or" questions
« on: December 19, 2010, 01:19:40 am »
TSe...

We know how to do a general interrogatine question using -pe+

We know how to ask yes/no questions using srak(e)/kefyak

...but how would we translate a question like this one:

Are you travelling by pa'li or ikran?

Here is where the translation challenge is.  "Srak(e)" doesn't seem to be sufficient, and with "ftxey" there is no clear interrogative marker, and "srake" would look odd here....


Finally, there are questions like this one:

Are you coming or not?

...which are basically "srake" questions.

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Offline Lance R. Casey

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Re: "Either-or" questions
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2010, 04:11:17 am »
Finally, there are questions like this one:

Are you coming or not?

...which are basically "srake" questions.
That's been answered explicitly:

   Ftxey nga za'u fuke?

I do suspect that ftxey provides the solution to general XOR questions as well.

// Lance R. Casey

Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: "Either-or" questions
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2010, 05:33:37 am »
I'd expect general XOR questions to use ftxey, something along the lines of:

serop nga ikran fa ftxey pa'lifa
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Offline Plumps

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Re: "Either-or" questions
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2010, 05:29:35 pm »
I'd expect general XOR questions to use ftxey, something along the lines of:

serop nga ikran fa ftxey pa'lifa

Given the paradigm, I’d go for

    ftxey nga serop fa ikran fu pa’lifa fuke? – ‘are you travelling by ikran or pa’li or not?’

Since Frommer said, fuke can’t be omitted, I’m wondering on the construction

Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: "Either-or" questions
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2010, 05:41:27 pm »
I'd expect general XOR questions to use ftxey, something along the lines of:

serop nga ikran fa ftxey pa'lifa

Given the paradigm, I’d go for

    ftxey nga serop fa ikran fu pa’lifa fuke? – ‘are you travelling by ikran or pa’li or not?’

Since Frommer said, fuke can’t be omitted, I’m wondering on the construction


I originally expected it to follow the ftxey ___ fuke form but without the ke until I saw ftxey listed as a conjunction in the dictionary. I'm not sure if this is correct or representative of the fact that ftxey can fall in between traditional parts of speech.
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Offline 'Oma Tirea

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Re: "Either-or" questions
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2010, 06:56:00 pm »
Finally, there are questions like this one:

Are you coming or not?

...which are basically "srake" questions.
That's been answered explicitly:

   Ftxey nga za'u fuke?

I do suspect that ftxey provides the solution to general XOR questions as well.

Sran, kinda forgot about the "ftxey...fuke" construction :P

I'd expect general XOR questions to use ftxey, something along the lines of:

serop nga ikran fa ftxey pa'lifa

Given the paradigm, I’d go for

    ftxey nga serop fa ikran fu pa’lifa fuke? – ‘are you travelling by ikran or pa’li or not?’

Since Frommer said, fuke can’t be omitted, I’m wondering on the construction


Oe maybe it could be a new construction: "ftxey...fu...?"

E.g., "Ftxey nga serop fa ikran fu serop fa pa'li?

Maybe I could be merely speculating... again ::)

Somewhat Off T.: Has anyone found it strange that "ftxey" now has three meanings?
There's the verb "choose", and then there's the interrogative and non-interrogative forms of "whether" (inter. = "are" at the head of a sentence)

[img]http://swokaikran.skxawng.lu/sigbar/nwotd.php?p=2b[/img]

ÌTXTSTXRR!!

Srake serar le'Ìnglìsìa lì'fyayä aylì'ut?  Nari si älofoniru rutxe!!

Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: "Either-or" questions
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2010, 07:01:14 pm »
No, just ftxey ..., ftxey ... :) As Pawl said in Listening Comprehension:

  Po plltxe san tì'efumì oeyä, sutekip nìwotx ftxey Na'vi, ftxey sawtute lu sìltsan, lu kawng sìk.
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: "Either-or" questions
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2010, 02:37:35 am »
Is this construction workable?

pe'u serop  ngafa a fa ikran fu fa pa`li

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Offline 'Oma Tirea

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Re: "Either-or" questions
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2010, 02:51:42 am »
No, just ftxey ..., ftxey ... :) As Pawl said in Listening Comprehension:

  Po plltxe san tì'efumì oeyä, sutekip nìwotx ftxey Na'vi, ftxey sawtute lu sìltsan, lu kawng sìk.

But that is the non-interrogative usage of "ftxey".  The interrogative usage of "ftxey" is in "ftxey...fuke?"

[img]http://swokaikran.skxawng.lu/sigbar/nwotd.php?p=2b[/img]

ÌTXTSTXRR!!

Srake serar le'Ìnglìsìa lì'fyayä aylì'ut?  Nari si älofoniru rutxe!!

Offline Kì’onga Vul

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Re: "Either-or" questions
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2010, 02:42:09 pm »
I'd expect general XOR questions to use ftxey, something along the lines of:

serop nga ikran fa ftxey pa'lifa

Given the paradigm, I’d go for

    ftxey nga serop fa ikran fu pa’lifa fuke? – ‘are you travelling by ikran or pa’li or not?’

Since Frommer said, fuke can’t be omitted, I’m wondering on the construction


Given how English "either/or" sentences work, this one looks like it makes sense.

If you had the English "Are you traveling by ikran or pa'li?" and took out the second option (pa'li), you would get something that sounded like a yes/no question: "Are you traveling by ikran?" (Ftxey nga serop fa ikran fuke?)  (I suppose you could also use srak here.)  To make it an either/or question, in English the "or" plus the second option is added, so "Are you traveling by ikran or (by) pa'li?" (Ftxey nga serop fa ikran fu pa'lifa fuke?)

Of course, there's nothing saying Na'vi should follow English conventions, just that because of English's example, we know it is theoretically workable.

However, other languages have two distinct "or" words, one interrogative and one for statements.

Chinese
她喜欢用毛笔或者钢笔写字。   (She likes to write characters with a brush or pen.)
她喜欢用毛笔还是钢笔写字?   (Does she like to write characters with a brush or pen?)

Finnish
Hän meni bussilla tai junalla.  (He went by bus or train.)
Hän meni bussilla vai junalla?  (Did he go by bus or train?)

Maybe Na'vi will get an as-of-yet unmentioned word to serve as the interrogative "or."

Nga serop fa ikran _???_ pa’lifa?
« Last Edit: December 26, 2010, 02:47:37 pm by Kì’onga Vul »
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Offline Kì’onga Vul

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Re: "Either-or" questions
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2010, 04:39:50 pm »
Actually, on second thought, the word fuke itself seems to be a combination of fu and ke, meaning "or not?"  Here, fu does act interrogatively, so the suggestion that Na'vi might get a separate interrogative "or" word is probably wrong. :-\
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Offline Ataeghane

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Re: "Either-or" questions
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2010, 03:14:24 pm »
Quote
Oe maybe it could be a new construction: "ftxey...fu...?"

E.g., "Ftxey nga serop fa ikran fu serop fa pa'li?

Maybe I could be merely speculating... again

Somewhat Off T.: Has anyone found it strange that "ftxey" now has three meanings?
There's the verb "choose", and then there's the interrogative and non-interrogative forms of "whether" (inter. = "are" at the head of a sentence)
I think you may be right. Ke in fuke is negation, and if we don't need to negate but give the second alternative ftxey ... fu ... looks ok.

BTW, which of these three is correct?

I don't know if that's OK.
Oel ke omum ftxey tsaw tam fuke.
Oe ke omum ftxey tsaw tam fuke.
Oel ke omum futa ftxey tsaw tam fuke.


Or maybe all are wrong?

PS. What is the meaning of po plltxe san tì'efumì oeyä, sutekip nìwotx ftxey Na'vi, ftxey sawtute lu sìltsan, lu kawng sìk?

Oer wivìntxu ngal oey keyeyt krr a tse'a sat. Frakrr.

Offline Plumps

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Re: "Either-or" questions
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2010, 03:26:56 pm »
PS. What is the meaning of po plltxe san tì'efumì oeyä, sutekip nìwotx ftxey Na'vi, ftxey sawtute lu sìltsan, lu kawng sìk?

From Frommer’s comprehension exercise, kefyak?

»She (mother) says, “in my opinion, among all people, whether Na’vi or Skypeople (there) are good and bad (ones)”.«

Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: "Either-or" questions
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2010, 03:28:29 pm »
BTW, which of these three is correct?

I don't know if that's OK.
Oel ke omum ftxey tsaw tam fuke.
Oe ke omum ftxey tsaw tam fuke.
Oel ke omum futa ftxey tsaw tam fuke.


Or maybe all are wrong?

I think first one is wrong. As for second and third - don't know. Both seem correct :)

PS. What is the meaning of po plltxe san tì'efumì oeyä, sutekip nìwotx ftxey Na'vi, ftxey sawtute lu sìltsan, lu kawng sìk?

  She says: "In my opinion, among all people - either Na'vi or skypeople - are good, are bad."
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Offline Ataeghane

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Re: "Either-or" questions
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2010, 03:39:36 pm »
Quote
»She (mother) says, “in my opinion, among all people, whether Na’vi or Skypeople (there) are good and bad (ones)”.«
Oh, thanks. I expected sth like that, but I wanted to make sure I get it.


Oer wivìntxu ngal oey keyeyt krr a tse'a sat. Frakrr.

 

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