Genitive and Word order

Started by 'Oma Tirea, August 30, 2010, 11:24:39 PM

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'Oma Tirea

Not sure how simple it is, but here it is, in the intermediate section...

If word order in Na'vi is relatively free, how could you express the following phrases:

1} My brother's father's clan leader's bow
2} My father's clan leader's brother's bow

My take on this (tìyawr si oeru txo nga tsun ulte txo oeru lu tìkxey):

1} Oeyä tsmukanä sempulä olo'eyktanä tsko
2} Oeyä sempulä olo'eyktanä tsmukanä tsko

...but what's the importance of word order in these situations... if there even is one?  The two English sentences has the exact same words, only rearranged, which can mean something entirely different.  Does something similar apply to Na'vi?
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Muzer

I've always assumed that genitives radiate outwards from the original word (in one or both directions), but I've seen examples of Frommer that would suggest this isn't the case (I can't remember what exactly, but it was 'uo ngeyä 'uoä - the something of your something, but it would literally translate as the something of you of something)
[21:42:56] <@Muzer> Apple products used to be good, if expensive
[21:42:59] <@Muzer> now they are just expensive

kewnya txamew'itan

Omängum asked Frommer this a while ago. In general genitives stack away from what is ultimately possessed and must all 'point' in the same direction.
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Muzer

#3
So is the X ngeyä Yä that I saw (definitely Frommerian, though I can't remember where now, I'll try to find it) an exception or a mistake?

EDIT: "Aylì'ufa awngeyä 'eylanä a'ewan Markusì ta Ngalwey . . . 'Ivong Na'vi!
In the words of our young friend Markus from Galway . . . Let Na'vi bloom!"
[21:42:56] <@Muzer> Apple products used to be good, if expensive
[21:42:59] <@Muzer> now they are just expensive

kewnya txamew'itan

#4
When one of the possessors is a personal pronoun their location in the "stack" doesn't affect the meaning at all (or make it more or less ambiguous), a personal pronoun can't be possessed so it's possible that they aren't bound by the normal rules (and so can go anywhere in the stack and don't have to go at the beginning/end) or it could be a mistake, I don't know.
Internet Acronyms Nìna'vi

hamletä tìralpuseng lena'vi sngolä'eiyi. tìkangkem si awngahu ro
http://bit.ly/53GnAB
The translation of Hamlet into Na'vi has started! Join with us at http://bit.ly/53GnAB

txo nga new oehu pivlltxe nìna'vi, nga oer 'eylan si mì fayspuk (http://bit.ly/bp9fwf)
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Muzer

Quote from: kewnya txamew'itan on September 02, 2010, 12:55:47 AM
their location in the "stack" doesn't the meaning at all

Are you a verb here?
[21:42:56] <@Muzer> Apple products used to be good, if expensive
[21:42:59] <@Muzer> now they are just expensive

kewnya txamew'itan

I accidentally the word. It's fixed now. :D
Internet Acronyms Nìna'vi

hamletä tìralpuseng lena'vi sngolä'eiyi. tìkangkem si awngahu ro
http://bit.ly/53GnAB
The translation of Hamlet into Na'vi has started! Join with us at http://bit.ly/53GnAB

txo nga new oehu pivlltxe nìna'vi, nga oer 'eylan si mì fayspuk (http://bit.ly/bp9fwf)
If you want to speak na'vi to me, friend me on facebook (http://bit.ly/bp9fwf)

numena'viyä hapxì amezamkivohinve
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