Author Topic: Na'vi: head initial or final?  (Read 2105 times)

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Offline Irtaviš Ačankif

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Re: Na'vi: head initial or final?
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2013, 09:27:21 pm »
Hmm I originally wrote -ru but then remembered a few days ago in the Na'vi Proverbs thread somebody mentioned that slu goes with ne and thus I edited my post. I don't feel comfortable using ne with slu...but I shall look it up.

As for examples of interesting sequences, try kameie, 'eylanne, torukka

Again, I'm not claiming these sentences make sense in Na'vi, using Na'vi parsing rules. They make sense using Japanese parsing rules, and that was only a demonstration that you can stick Japanese grammar into Na'vi and still get *syntactically* more-or-less correct sentences. "Honorable eat-wards becoming please" is far from syntactically correct English.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 09:30:42 pm by Urekáthte Lûseni »
Previously Ithisa Kīranem, Uniltìrantokx te Skxawng.

Name from my Sakaš conlang, from Sakasul Ältäbisäl Acarankïp

"First name" is Ačankif, not Eltabiš! In Na'vi, Atsankip.

Offline Prrton

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Re: Na'vi: head initial or final?
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2013, 12:17:28 am »
Hmm I originally wrote -ru but then remembered a few days ago in the Na'vi Proverbs thread somebody mentioned that slu goes with ne and thus I edited my post. I don't feel comfortable using ne with slu...but I shall look it up.

As for examples of interesting sequences, try kameie, 'eylanne, torukka

Again, I'm not claiming these sentences make sense in Na'vi, using Na'vi parsing rules. They make sense using Japanese parsing rules, and that was only a demonstration that you can stick Japanese grammar into Na'vi and still get *syntactically* more-or-less correct sentences. "Honorable eat-wards becoming please" is far from syntactically correct English.

Slu does take ne in order to clarify a predicate noun when the metaphorical "direction" of becoming is ambiguous.

’Eveng slu ne taronyu.
Slu taronyune ’eveng.
Ne taronyu slu ’eveng.

However even Po slu taronyu does not require it because there is no ambiguity.

Kameie would likely go to /'ka.mɛ.jɛ/ in fast, colloquial speech, but remain /'ka.mɛ.i.ɛ/ in others (even after 100 years). 家 certainly doesn't go to /je/ in Japanese (in any context or register).

/'ʔɛɪ̯.la.nɛ/ is not a simple noun in Na’vi, so it really can only mean "toward friend". The same is true of /'to.ru.ka/ to produce "all over the toruk".

I'm still not convinced that the Na’vi-ized Japanese is “*syntactically* more-or-less correct”, but I understand the core concept of what I think you're shooting at better now.

As for "I'm uncomfortable mostly because it makes Na'vi look obviously and carefully constructed." Na’vi is very very carefully constructed, but on multiple axes. In some ways you might argue that it is MORE constructed than Esperanto, but in other ways less. If you have not read it yet, I strongly recommend Language: The Cultural Tool to you. Daniel Everett essentially argues that all languages are constructed as tools. The construction process is simply different from one to the next and many different, and multi-layered influences come into play. As for "obviously constructed"... Obvious to whom? Movie-goers? Language-learning fans? Conlangers? Field linguists? Theoretical linguists? Speakers of Aymara?


Offline Irtaviš Ačankif

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Re: Na'vi: head initial or final?
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2013, 07:55:26 am »
家 is often pronounced /i.je/ though. Japanese is strongly mora-preserving in its sound changes for some reason - the vast majority of words from OJ have not changed their length even when the sound changes drastically (十 = /zi.pu/ -> /zi.fu/ -> /zi.u/ -> /zyu.u/).

I'll definitely take a look at that book.
Previously Ithisa Kīranem, Uniltìrantokx te Skxawng.

Name from my Sakaš conlang, from Sakasul Ältäbisäl Acarankïp

"First name" is Ačankif, not Eltabiš! In Na'vi, Atsankip.

 

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