Learn Na'vi > Advanced Grammar

Questions about the language

(1/5) > >>

Kaltxì ma frapo!

I read Horen leNa'vi and I ask me about these ambiguities about the Na'vi language.
I do not know if it was already spoken about it, but it would be good, this confusion would vanish?

Took from Horen:
Text in maroon is for matters that seem to me to be serious questions about the language but for which no answer is currently available.

Section: 3.2. The Pronoun

3.2.1. Animacy. Brief outline of animacy hierarchy might be useful here. Is a bug animate?
Brief mention and defer to syntax? For the inclusive first person forms, use separate pronouns, ohe ngengasì (with enclitic
sì and). In the film we apparently get ohengeyä. (confirmed *click*)

Section: 3.3. Prenouns

3.3.1. Fì-. This prenoun is for proximal deixis, this. When it is followed by the plural prefix ay+
they contract into fay+, these. But we’ve seen fìay- from Frommer at least once, oel foru fìaylì’ut
tolìng a krr, kxawm oe harmahängaw, Jan 26.

3.3.4. Fra-. This prenoun means all, every. When it is followed by the plural prefix ay+ they
contract into fray+.

^See there: Na'vi details from Avatarmeet 2013

--- Quote from: Ftiafpi on July 27, 2013, 03:06:12 pm ---Fì + ay will generally turn into fay+ especially in rapid or casual speech but in formal or precise speech it may be fìay+.

However, fra + ay will always be fray+.
--- End quote ---

3.3.7. Combinations. The prenouns may combine on a single word, in this order —
fìtsa-fra-number markingfne-the noun-pepe+
Only one from each column may be used, and of course the question affix is only used once. The
full details of this ordering are not yet confirmed for fra-.

Section: 3.4. Correlatives Plurals for these are a bit funky. Though tsa’u is from tsa- and ’u, the plural is (ay)sa’u.
Confirmed, but details might be nice. How to work in tsapo?

3.4.2. Fì’u and Tsaw in Clause Nominalization. The demonstrative pronoun fì’u and inanimate
pronoun tsaw are used with the attributive particle a to nominalize clauses (§6.18.4). When
the attributive particle follows certain case forms of the pronoun, they contract:

CaseFì’u ContractionTsaw ContractionSubjectivefwa (< fì’u a)tsawaAgentivefula (< fì’ul a)tsala (confirmed *click*)Patientivefuta (< fì’ut a)tsataTopicalfuria (< fì’uri a)tsaria
Section: 4.2. Ordinal Numbers Can combine freely with nì-? Yes Ordinals & nume Kew is zero. Current documentation doesn’t make clear if this idea is native or imported
from the Humans.

Section: 5.1. Derivational Affixes Tì- ‹us› creates a gerund. It is fully productive for verb roots and compounds (si-construction
verbs, §5.3.3, cannot be made into a gerund). This is most useful when a simple tì- derivation
already has an established meaning, as in rey live, tìrey life, but tìrusey living. See also
§6.9.2. What about yomtìng? Yomtìtusìng? -> It's tìyomtusìng. Infixes goes in the second part. Also see her: Gerund part

Section: 6.1. Transitivity and Ergativity Na’vi is also pragmatically split-ergative. In connected discourse one may drop the subject
pronoun if it doesn’t change. The subject may be either subjective or agentive. See some pragmatics

Section: 6.2. Noun Phrases and Adjectives

6.2.1. Number. Are the dual and trial collective vs. plural distributive? Or always obligatory?

Section: 6.5. Adpositions How to explain this: law lu oeru fwa nga mì reltseo nolume nìtxan! Restriction of
scope, like mì sìrey?

6.5.41. Vay. Up to, until. This may be used of both time and space, tsakrrvay, ayngeyä tìmweypeyri
irayo seiyi oe until that time, I thank (you) for your patience. There’s a line from the video game
with a local use.

Section: 6.6. Adverbs Note about sentence adverbs vs. nìfya’o forms?

Section: 6.7. Aspect and Tense

6.7.7. Tense. Na’vi tense, as in Human languages, simply locates an event in time.
There are too few examples of complex sentences to be sure about relative tense in subordinate

Section: 6.8. Subjunctive Known modal verbs and verbs with modal syntax:11
[...] that footnote
11Other candidates: sto refuse confirmed as modal verb, flä succeed, hawl prepare.

6.8.5. Other Uses. The subjunctive is also used in purpose clauses with fte (§6.17.2), conditional
sentences (§6.19), with the conjunction tsnì when used with certain verbs (§6.20.7).

Section: 6.17. Complex Sentences

6.17.1. Tense and Aspect in Dependent Subjunctives. Do dependent verbs have TAM-solidarity
with their controlling verb?

Section: 6.18. Relative Clauses and Phrase Attribution Clauses may also be nominalized with forms of tsa’u. The difference between fì’u
and tsa’u is that the tsa’u form can be used when the clause it anchors refers to something old
in the discourse, something which has been previously discussed. This subtlety is not required,
however, and forms in fì’u are never wrong. Example conversation using both? A list of legal ones might be nice. Will sre and maw attach to fwa or krr? Other likely
candidates: fpi, mìkam, mungwrr, pxel/na, vay?

6.18.6. Nominalizations as Conjunctions. There are a few Na’vi constructions involving nouns
and the attributive particle that do what English uses conjunctions for. Because of this, what appear
to be identical conjunctions have two forms — one for when the conjunction comes at the
end of a clause, and one for when it comes at the start. Often these phrases have contracted into
one word, sometimes with sound changes.

At the startAt the end aftermawkrraakrrmawfrom maw krr abecausetalun(a)aluntafrom ta lun abecausetaweyk(a)aweyktafrom ta oeyk awhenkrraa krrthat (as a result)kumaakumsince (from the time)takrraakrrtafrom ta krr a

Section: 6.19. Conditional Sentences

6.19.1. General. General conditions describe situations that are commonly or generally true,
such as “if it doesn’t rain, plants and animals suffer.” In Na’vi, a general condition takes txo with
the subjunctive in the condition and a non-future indicative in the consequent, txo fkol ke fyivel
uranit paywä, zene fko slivele if one does not seal a boat against water, one must swim.

6.19.3. Hypothetical. No examples yet.

6.19.4. Contrafactual. No examples yet.

Section: 6.20. Conjunctions

6.20.3. Fu. The conjunction fu, or, may be used to combine either noun phrases or verb phrases.
Ke zasyup lì’Ona ne kxutu a mìfa fu a wrrpa The l’Ona will not perish to the enemy within or the
enemy without. But no examples of the verb phrase yet...

6.20.7. Tsnì. The conjunction tsnì that introduces some kinds of report clause which cause the
verb to take the subjunctive, ätxäle si tsnì livu oheru Uniltaron I respectfully request the Dream
Hunt, sìlpey oe tsnì fìtìoeyktìng law livu ngaru set I hope that this explanation is clear to you now.
The verb determines the subjunctive, or the construction? Tsnì seems most often used when intransitive constructions are in the main clause.

Section: 6.22. Particles

6.22.5. Tse. This particle is a marker of conversational hesitation, well. In English “well” relates
to felicity conditions in divergent ways.

Here a check list.

SectionCurrently solved? (yes / no)Section: 3.2. The Pronounyes (expect 3.2.1. )Section: 3.3. Prenounsyes (expect 3.3.7. )Section: 3.4. Correlativesyes (expect )Section: 4.2. Ordinal Numbersyes (expect )Section: 5.1. Derivational AffixesyesSection: 6.1. Transitivity and ErgativitynoSection: 6.2. Noun Phrases and AdjectivesnoSection: 6.5. AdpositionsnoSection: 6.6. AdverbsnoSection: 6.7. Aspect and TensenoSection: 6.8. SubjunctivenoSection: 6.17. Complex SentencesnoSection: 6.18. Relative Clauses and Phrase Attribution     noSection: 6.19. Conditional SentencesnoSection: 6.20. ConjunctionsnoSection: 6.22. Particlesno
Kìyevame ulte Eywa ngahu!

Blue Elf:
Best way is probably to ask wm.annis, as he is author of Horen.
According what I know:
- fray+ was not confirmed until now
- sto was confirmed as modal verb

I think there is not a prefix fray+ in the language. What would it mean? ??? Fra- means «every», but I don't understand the meaning of its plural form :-\


--- Quote from: Kemaweyan on March 17, 2013, 05:57:08 pm ---I think there is not a prefix fray+ in the language. What would it mean? ??? Fra- means «every», but I don't understand the meaning of its plural form :-\

--- End quote ---
That is correct, fra- already denotes the noun to be plural.
When you say that *fray+ would denote the plural form, it means that fra- would not.
frapo would then mean all the person and frayfo would be all the persons (everyone).

Another way of saying this: the Na'vi doesn't use double plural forms. Similarly: when you add numbers to your phrase, you don't have to add a prefix to the nou. Example: Menga lu karyu. - You two are teachers.


--- Quote from: eejmensenikbenhet on March 18, 2013, 05:22:38 am ---frapo would then mean all the person and frayfo would be all the persons (everyone).

--- End quote ---

But «everyone» officially is frapo. So we don't need another word.


[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

Go to full version