Author Topic: Use of nouns as verbs  (Read 1424 times)

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Offline AuLekye'ung

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Use of nouns as verbs
« on: February 09, 2010, 12:21:48 pm »
Kaltxi.

So, I was wondering if you can use nouns as verbs.

Like, I honor you.

Or would it be:

Oel tìng meuiat ngaru.
I give honor you.

That seems more likely.
Txo *fìzìsìst*it oel ke lu, kxawm oel tutet lepamtseo lu.  Oe pxìm fpìl nìpamtseo, oel rey letrra ayunil oeyä nìpamtseo.

- Älpert Aynstayn

Offline Hawnuyu atxen

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Re: Use of nouns as verbs
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2010, 12:28:45 pm »
Kaltxì!

We already seen some verbs like that:

tìng mikyun (give ear / listen)
nari si (do/make eye / watch out/be careful)
eltu si (do/make brain / listen/pay attention)

So it might be right.
"Hrrap rä'ä si olo'ur smuktuä." ; "Ke'u ke lu ngay. Frakemit tung." (Assassin's Creed)

Nikre tsa'usìn!

Offline AuLekye'ung

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Re: Use of nouns as verbs
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2010, 12:42:54 pm »
It makes sense, so unless we hear otherwise it seems that that's what should be used.

Unless one of the vast numbers of people who know more than me think otherwise?  I was just trying to clarify.
Txo *fìzìsìst*it oel ke lu, kxawm oel tutet lepamtseo lu.  Oe pxìm fpìl nìpamtseo, oel rey letrra ayunil oeyä nìpamtseo.

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Offline Plumps

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Re: Use of nouns as verbs
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2010, 12:58:51 pm »
That would imply that meuia is a noun - we are still not sure about that... ;)
Or do we and I didn't get a fmawn? :P

Offline AuLekye'ung

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Re: Use of nouns as verbs
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2010, 01:15:10 pm »
I just assumed it was.  Taronyu's dictionary doesn't say.
Txo *fìzìsìst*it oel ke lu, kxawm oel tutet lepamtseo lu.  Oe pxìm fpìl nìpamtseo, oel rey letrra ayunil oeyä nìpamtseo.

- Älpert Aynstayn

Offline Erimeyz

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Re: Use of nouns as verbs
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2010, 01:21:07 pm »
The only verbifying of nouns we have seen are the "X si" and "X tìng" compounds.

We can probably extrapolate these compound forms to turn more nouns into verbs, but caution is highly warranted.  Some of the canonical constructions appear to be idiomatic - "give eye" for "look" and "give ear" for listen, but "do eye" for "be careful" and "do brain" for "pay attention".

For example: txum si do/make poison is probably not "make a poison out of stuff like animal secretions and tree sap", because that would probably be ngop txumit create poison.  But does it mean "administer poison to someone" or "ingest poison"?  Or is it a nonsense phrase?  We don't really know, so we should be careful in our speculation.

  - Eri

Offline AuLekye'ung

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Re: Use of nouns as verbs
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2010, 01:24:52 pm »
Well it seemed safe to assume that, if meuia is indeed a noun, that giving honor to someone would be honoring them.  I agree the make/do for things like poison is ambiguous.  But if meuia is a verb than it is even simpler.
Txo *fìzìsìst*it oel ke lu, kxawm oel tutet lepamtseo lu.  Oe pxìm fpìl nìpamtseo, oel rey letrra ayunil oeyä nìpamtseo.

- Älpert Aynstayn

Offline Erimeyz

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Re: Use of nouns as verbs
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2010, 01:41:47 pm »
Yeah, unfortunately there are some words that we just don't know how to use.  We have their definitions from the Activist Survival Guide, but we don't have their part of speech and we don't have any examples of their use, so we don't know what they really mean.

In such cases you can be safe and avoid the word... or you can be bold and use it the way you think it should be used, be it as a noun or verb.  Just pick one or the other usage and be consistent with it until Frommer eventually tells us differently, and be prepared for others to question you about it. :)

  - Eri

Offline AuLekye'ung

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Re: Use of nouns as verbs
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2010, 02:40:51 pm »
Good plan.

Irayo, Eywa ngahu.
Txo *fìzìsìst*it oel ke lu, kxawm oel tutet lepamtseo lu.  Oe pxìm fpìl nìpamtseo, oel rey letrra ayunil oeyä nìpamtseo.

- Älpert Aynstayn

Offline roger

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Re: Use of nouns as verbs
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2010, 04:02:23 pm »
I think it's unlikely that we can just use nouns as verbs. Maintaining a strict distinction between major parts of speech seems to be necessary to allow Na'vi's free word order.

Offline AuLekye'ung

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Re: Use of nouns as verbs
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2010, 06:23:48 pm »
More what I was wondering was are there clear-cut prefixes or what-not that allow you to turn a noun into a verb.

Like, can you change tukru into something to indicate you are spearing someone?

I'm going to assume that tìng txoa would mean to give forgiveness, and other tìng + something works.

Also, is there a word or phrase for telling the truth?  Tìng tìngay seems odd.
Txo *fìzìsìst*it oel ke lu, kxawm oel tutet lepamtseo lu.  Oe pxìm fpìl nìpamtseo, oel rey letrra ayunil oeyä nìpamtseo.

- Älpert Aynstayn

Offline Kì'eyawn

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Re: Use of nouns as verbs
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2010, 10:06:17 pm »
Also, is there a word or phrase for telling the truth?  Tìng tìngay seems odd.

I think it would be "to speak truth"--although, whether "truth" then needs the accusative marker on it...your guess is as good as mine =\

Eywa ngahu
eo Eywa oe 'ia

Fra'uri tìyawnur oe täpivìng nìwotx...

Offline AuLekye'ung

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Re: Use of nouns as verbs
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2010, 10:32:22 pm »
"Speak" is transitive, so...

Oel plltxe tìngayit, I guess...

Although, if you recall, Dr. Augustine notes that, until she taught it to them, the Na'vi didn't even HAVE a word for lie, so "telling the truth" would be an alien concept to them, since they always were truthful.  (Theoretically.)

They would still have the word for true, or tìngay for truth, but the act of speaking the truth probably didn't come up.  Does that make sense to anyone else, or just in my head?
Txo *fìzìsìst*it oel ke lu, kxawm oel tutet lepamtseo lu.  Oe pxìm fpìl nìpamtseo, oel rey letrra ayunil oeyä nìpamtseo.

- Älpert Aynstayn

Offline roger

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Re: Use of nouns as verbs
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2010, 12:59:58 am »
"Speak" is transitive, so...

Oel plltxe tìngayit, I guess...

Although, if you recall, Dr. Augustine notes that, until she taught it to them, the Na'vi didn't even HAVE a word for lie, so "telling the truth" would be an alien concept to them, since they always were truthful.  (Theoretically.)

They would still have the word for true, or tìngay for truth, but the act of speaking the truth probably didn't come up.  Does that make sense to anyone else, or just in my head?

I would think it might mean s.t. like "to be correct", as opposed to mistaken. The Na'vi are still wrong sometimes, and so say things which are false.

Offline AuLekye'ung

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Re: Use of nouns as verbs
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2010, 03:21:09 pm »
But they have no reason to say "I speak truth."  If they are wrong, they probably weren't lying on purpose.
Txo *fìzìsìst*it oel ke lu, kxawm oel tutet lepamtseo lu.  Oe pxìm fpìl nìpamtseo, oel rey letrra ayunil oeyä nìpamtseo.

- Älpert Aynstayn

Offline Kì'eyawn

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Re: Use of nouns as verbs
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2010, 04:25:59 pm »
Personally, i don't mind that whole dialogue about Grace giving them a word for "lie" being struck from the final version of the film.  It's cutesy in a "noble savage" sort of way, but i just don't buy it.  I mean, you can find deception in even the most unsophisticated animals on Earth; it strains credulity to believe the Na'vi never, ever deceive each other.

Now, having said that, i wouldn't be surprised if they are shocked by the degree to which humans are comfortable with deception; i'd also be willing to believe that the Na'vi deceive in more of a misleading way--sins of omission, etc.--while maybe what we call a "bold-faced lie" would be too shameful to comprehend.
eo Eywa oe 'ia

Fra'uri tìyawnur oe täpivìng nìwotx...

Offline Erimeyz

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Re: Use of nouns as verbs
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2010, 05:16:52 pm »
I agree wholeheartedly.

  - Eri

 

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