Author Topic: AvatarMeet 2018 North America (ideas and such)  (Read 4683 times)

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Offline TEAgaming2154

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Re: AvatarMeet 2018 North America (ideas and such)
« Reply #60 on: December 10, 2017, 12:31:07 pm »
IMHO Canada is really bad option for meetup because we have at least one spammer here. Just imagine what will happened during meetup. Non-stop talking  ;D
Truth. Let's just stick with YNP. We'll be fine, and people will enjoy it. :)
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Offline Alan

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Re: AvatarMeet 2018 North America (ideas and such)
« Reply #61 on: December 10, 2017, 02:19:18 pm »
All,

The location of each AvatarMeet is not just decided by people on LearnNavi, but also people from ToS, AvatarMeet Facebook and through those who subscribe to the AvatarMeet newsletter.  A survey will be pulled together with suggested locations for everyone to vote on.

So far Lassen, Yellowstone Park and Vancouver apear to have been suggested her as far as I know.  Away from this forum, the Great Lakes and the Grand Canyon have also been suggested.

It is worth noting that if a place doesn't get chosen, there is nothing to stop those interested having their own meet up.  There have been mini-meets of Avatar fans in Colorado, New York and London over the years, that I aware of.

Also can we be a bit more respectful towards each other.  There are clearly differing views, but lets not start insulting each other.  Both venues are really good and have the positives and negatives.

Alan


Offline Ertew

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Re: AvatarMeet 2018 North America (ideas and such)
« Reply #62 on: December 10, 2017, 03:47:40 pm »
Maybe we should do list of all possible locations, sort by votes, select let's say TOP3 or TOP5 and visit one location per year. This way AvatarMeet will visit all locations worth visiting, just one this year, one next year, etc.
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Offline Ikxeru

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Re: AvatarMeet 2018 North America (ideas and such)
« Reply #63 on: December 10, 2017, 05:55:53 pm »
Allrighty, here my $5,000 and two cents for the next meetup...

I have to be very careful about any announcement if it will be possible for me to attend to a meetup in North America in 2018 - so maybe I have an opinion that leads to a decision about a location and I even won't be able to attend. But anyway, here's my personal point-of-view:

When I plan a trip to a meetup, I don't just attend to the meetup and fly home. It takes me 16-24 hours roundtrip in the air to get to any airport in North America. So if I would have a one week vacation, I would spend 1/5th of it in the air in a plane. I want to see places, so I add a few extra days, weeks...  Going to Yellowstone would fit into this concept.
I could fly to LAX or LAS, take the interstate across Nevada, Utah, see the North Rim of the Grand Canyon (and try to figure out where I have been once on the South Rim :D ). We all know that I love the desert. And then take back roads for like one week to get there, have a meetup and drive back - maybe to SFO or SEA - because I can. :)
Result: 3 weeks + a couple of days in Palm Spings and San Francisco.  DREAM VACATION, right?

BUT: My job allows me to do such trips - my bank account will not in 2018....  because AM2017 was very expensive for me (#LostAirlineTicket)

If the meetup would take place in a major city, next to an intercontinental airport (or within diving distance, like 400 miles)  I could convince myself to do a shorter 1 1/2 weeks trip to a meetup.
All other options are simply out of the question.

Just for fun, I just looked up Matrix Flightsearch and got this result:  cheapest ticket is for a whooping €1,900 round-tip in ECONOMY(!), which is like US$2,300.   I can almost fly BUSINESS to LAX for this price.
   
Dusseldorf (DUS) to Amsterdam (AMS) — Mon, Jul 16
KLM 1856
Dep: 12:25 pm - Arr: 1:25 pm - 1h 0m - Embraer RJ-190 - Economy (H)
OPERATED BY KLM CITYHOPPER
Layover in AMS - 2h 15m
   
Amsterdam (AMS) to Los Angeles (LAX) — Mon, Jul 16
Delta 79
Dep: 3:40 pm - Arr: 6:30 pm - 11h 50m - Boeing 777 - Economy (Q)
Layover in LAX: 1h 55m
   
Los Angeles (LAX) to Salt Lake City (SLC) — Mon, Jul 16
Delta 1458
Dep: 8:25 pm - Arr: 11:15 pm - 1h 50m - Airbus A319 - Economy (Q)
Layover in SLC - 10h 30m   

Salt Lake City (SLC) to West Yellowstone (WYS) — Tue, Jul 17
Delta 4276
Dep: 9:45 am - Arr: 10:47 am - 1h 2m - Canadair Reg. Jet - Economy (Q)
OPERATED BY SKYWEST DBA DELTA CONNECTION

Total travel time: 30h22m

NO WAY, I am going to do this. I would stick to my plan and fly to LAX and drive to see the world, not to see airports. But this is not an option in 2018.
Some things simply can't work.

(in comparison: A round-tip ticket to Vancouver is €1,000=US$1,250)
« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 05:59:35 pm by Ikxeru »
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Offline TrueLoveforNeytiri

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Re: AvatarMeet 2018 North America (ideas and such)
« Reply #64 on: December 10, 2017, 07:16:19 pm »
All,

The location of each AvatarMeet is not just decided by people on LearnNavi, but also people from ToS, AvatarMeet Facebook and through those who subscribe to the AvatarMeet newsletter.  A survey will be pulled together with suggested locations for everyone to vote on.

So far Lassen, Yellowstone Park and Vancouver apear to have been suggested her as far as I know.  Away from this forum, the Great Lakes and the Grand Canyon have also been suggested.

It is worth noting that if a place doesn't get chosen, there is nothing to stop those interested having their own meet up.  There have been mini-meets of Avatar fans in Colorado, New York and London over the years, that I aware of.

Also can we be a bit more respectful towards each other.  There are clearly differing views, but lets not start insulting each other.  Both venues are really good and have the positives and negatives.

Alan

The Great Lakes could be an interesting option depending on where it is. Where was this posted? Again, for me, it's not a matter of location, but rather accessibility and inclusion. I wouldn't mind having a look at that one too. You can post it here or you could message me about it. Irayo. :)

Offline TrueLoveforNeytiri

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Re: AvatarMeet 2018 North America (ideas and such)
« Reply #65 on: December 10, 2017, 07:21:39 pm »
IMHO Canada is really bad option for meetup because we have at least one spammer here. Just imagine what will happened during meetup. Non-stop talking  ;D

;D Well, I know this might seem hard to believe despite my long posts here, but in person I am actually quite a shy and quiet person! hrh  :-[

Offline TEAgaming2154

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Re: AvatarMeet 2018 North America (ideas and such)
« Reply #66 on: December 10, 2017, 08:33:28 pm »
Ok, let's stop arguing about Yellowstone and Vancouver.
You have your reasons for taking the meet to Vancouver, and I have my reasons for taking the meet to Yellowstone. And besides, the European attendees will be having their own meet to keep flight costs down.
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Offline TrueLoveforNeytiri

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Re: AvatarMeet 2018 North America (ideas and such)
« Reply #67 on: December 10, 2017, 08:52:04 pm »
Ok, let's stop arguing about Yellowstone and Vancouver.
You have your reasons for taking the meet to Vancouver, and I have my reasons for taking the meet to Yellowstone. And besides, the European attendees will be having their own meet to keep flight costs down.

Agreed. :)

Offline Vawmataw

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Re: AvatarMeet 2018 North America (ideas and such)
« Reply #68 on: December 10, 2017, 08:54:28 pm »
I also want to point out that no matter the location and how hard we try, not everyone will attend.  If it doesn't work this year, try the next year.
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Offline TEAgaming2154

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Re: AvatarMeet 2018 North America (ideas and such)
« Reply #69 on: December 10, 2017, 09:09:40 pm »
I also want to point out that no matter the location and how hard we try, not everyone will attend.  If it doesn't work this year, try the next year.
Truth. Even some people here on this continent won't attend, but a good roster is always nice. Maybe the main meet in one location and an unrelated mini-meet in another?  :)
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Re: AvatarMeet 2018 North America (ideas and such)
« Reply #70 on: December 10, 2017, 10:42:10 pm »
When the location goes up for a vote, at least the voters will be well-informed...   :D

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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: AvatarMeet 2018 North America (ideas and such)
« Reply #71 on: December 10, 2017, 11:28:20 pm »
In general, I am starting to come around to TrueLoveForNeytiri's thoughts concerning venue. Not necessarily Vancouver (Aargh, no hydrothermal features there, and the cougars up there are known to carry rabies ;) ), but AvatarMeet venues in general.

I learned the hard way in 2013 what rooms cost in Shennendoah National Park after an 'Apollo 13' level technical glitch made it impossible to camp (and I had gone to a great deal of trouble to ship camping gear out east). First, I shared a cabin with someone else (it did come with linens), but after I injured myself, I had to move into a hotel setting in the park. The net result was a $600+ cost overrun which was on top of an already expensive trip. Hotel rooms around most National Parks are expensive. And I know almost for a fact that folks like K. Pawl will want a hotel room (He and John did come to Shennendoah, though).

If Yellowstone is like Kings Canyon National Park, or even even Occoho National Forest (Home of the Oregon Star Party), the time to drive into the park is measured in hours. Shennendoah, from civilization, was nearly that bad. Any event in such a park commits you for that event. (Lassen and another park that would be a great back-to-nature park, Great Basin National Park are not nearly so bad.) I have no idea about Grand Canyon National Park. Yosemite has not been mentioned, but should be considered as a more compact park (and the primary way to/from Yosemite would be through Reno!). Yellowstone, Grand Canyon and Yosemite have one thing in common though-- they are major tourist traps!

That brings us back to having a venue close to a major international airport, which generally also means close to a big city. This solves logistics problems for people who aren't good at dealing with logistics problems. For those that want to camp, make the camping part optional, as was the case in 2011, 2012, 2014 and 2015. This also rules out any camping venues not reasonably close to the city/international airport combo. The 2014 camping event should be considered an extreme outlier for what is possible, although that was an important and memorable part of that trip. (2015 was almost as bad in that respect, but staying at Marki's place was almost magical!)

These factors rule out meetups in Lassen or Yellowstone, or require great logistical planning, especially for Yellowstone. It also opens up Reno as a possible meetup location, as we have awesome wilderness areas (including Lassen aand Lake Tahoe), but we also have an urban area with things to do and an international airport. And even though it is disdained by some, so does Las Vegas. There are some incredible outdoor activities, in some cases, just 20 minutes outside the city (like Red Rock Canyon, which also has campgrounds). Plus, if you stay away from the 'strip', there are plenty of inexpensive hotels with great service all over the city.

That said, if anyone is interested, it would be fun to plan a mini-meetup in a place like Lassen (perhaps during its Astronomy Festival in early August) or Great Basin National Park.

Also, I have not yet looked at what the drive to Yellowstone is like, but gut feeling is it is a 2 day each way trip.

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Offline Wind12

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Re: AvatarMeet 2018 North America (ideas and such)
« Reply #72 on: December 11, 2017, 01:01:46 am »
In general, I am starting to come around to TrueLoveForNeytiri's thoughts concerning venue. Not necessarily Vancouver (Aargh, no hydrothermal features there, and the cougars up there are known to carry rabies ;) ), but AvatarMeet venues in general.

I learned the hard way in 2013 what rooms cost in Shennendoah National Park after an 'Apollo 13' level technical glitch made it impossible to camp (and I had gone to a great deal of trouble to ship camping gear out east). First, I shared a cabin with someone else (it did come with linens), but after I injured myself, I had to move into a hotel setting in the park. The net result was a $600+ cost overrun which was on top of an already expensive trip. Hotel rooms around most National Parks are expensive. And I know almost for a fact that folks like K. Pawl will want a hotel room (He and John did come to Shennendoah, though).

If Yellowstone is like Kings Canyon National Park, or even even Occoho National Forest (Home of the Oregon Star Party), the time to drive into the park is measured in hours. Shennendoah, from civilization, was nearly that bad. Any event in such a park commits you for that event. (Lassen and another park that would be a great back-to-nature park, Great Basin National Park are not nearly so bad.) I have no idea about Grand Canyon National Park. Yosemite has not been mentioned, but should be considered as a more compact park (and the primary way to/from Yosemite would be through Reno!). Yellowstone, Grand Canyon and Yosemite have one thing in common though-- they are major tourist traps!

That brings us back to having a venue close to a major international airport, which generally also means close to a big city. This solves logistics problems for people who aren't good at dealing with logistics problems. For those that want to camp, make the camping part optional, as was the case in 2011, 2012, 2014 and 2015. This also rules out any camping venues not reasonably close to the city/international airport combo. The 2014 camping event should be considered an extreme outlier for what is possible, although that was an important and memorable part of that trip. (2015 was almost as bad in that respect, but staying at Marki's place was almost magical!)

These factors rule out meetups in Lassen or Yellowstone, or require great logistical planning, especially for Yellowstone. It also opens up Reno as a possible meetup location, as we have awesome wilderness areas (including Lassen aand Lake Tahoe), but we also have an urban area with things to do and an international airport. And even though it is disdained by some, so does Las Vegas. There are some incredible outdoor activities, in some cases, just 20 minutes outside the city (like Red Rock Canyon, which also has campgrounds). Plus, if you stay away from the 'strip', there are plenty of inexpensive hotels with great service all over the city.

That said, if anyone is interested, it would be fun to plan a mini-meetup in a place like Lassen (perhaps during its Astronomy Festival in early August) or Great Basin National Park.

Also, I have not yet looked at what the drive to Yellowstone is like, but gut feeling is it is a 2 day each way trip.
Irayo for your thoughts ma tsmukan. I too want to clear the air, its not that I don't think Yellowstone would be fun or be a very neat place to stay, but for me, I save up for a long time and then I try to plan my flights and travel months in advance, to make sure I can "visualise" how things are going to get me to the meet and back home, and having lots of possible loose ends in terms of travel makes me a bit nervous, it would be a big blow if I tried to plan for a trip for a long time and then couldn't make it at the last minute because I missed a connecting flight, or I get stranded in a smaller town that I have never been to, I DO  appriciate the offers for giving rides from TEAgaming2154, and I don't blame him one bit for pulling for yellowstone, but as a person that don't live near either Yellowstone or Vancouver or any of the other places, I would just feel more comfortable if the meet were in a place that is easy to plan for getting to the hotel on my own if I have to, rides are very nice, but at the same time I want to be responsible for myself and know that I have a way to get my self there and home on my own in case I have to, also money saved on flights can be used during the meet and less travel time means more "meet" time, also if the meet were not going to be split a bit more this year it might help if there was a spot that was more off the beaten path, because there would be more planning power focused on trying to deal with the extra challenges of getting everyone there.

Offline Ali'ìmalu

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Re: AvatarMeet 2018 North America (ideas and such)
« Reply #73 on: January 19, 2018, 08:07:58 am »
I don't know how viable it would be, but I would like to suggest a place I know. I'd be able to help with setup and such, since it's reasonably close and I'm familiar with the area.

Both parks are located in Illinois, and the main park is https://www.starvedrockstatepark.org. They offer camping, cabins, and a lodge so people can choose for preference and pricing. In autumn all the colors are simply amazing, though it can be a bit wet. It's also about a ten minute drive from another amazing location, http://www.stateparks.com/matthiessen.html. Both of these areas are ideal for hiking (although warning, Starved Rock has a gazillion stairs) and while they are popular for tourists they won't be as hugely so as some of the other suggestions I've seen. Because they're also state parks and not national, they'll also be quite a bit cheaper. I'm unsure of accessibility though. I know there are busses to them in their areas, but I'm not sure where the nearest airport would be (likely either Chicago, Rockford, or Springfield, but the website says something about Illinois Valley Regional airport?). If the one their website lists is accurate and accessible, it's only eight minutes away, which sounds most convenient.

I'm not sure if there's been an AvatarMeet in the Midwest, but I didn't notice a recent one, so hopefully my suggestion doesn't upset anyone. ^.^;
« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 08:16:34 am by Ali'ìmalu »

Offline TEAgaming2154

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Re: AvatarMeet 2018 North America (ideas and such)
« Reply #74 on: January 19, 2018, 10:45:50 am »
How is the light pollution there?
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Offline Vawmataw

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Re: AvatarMeet 2018 North America (ideas and such)
« Reply #75 on: January 19, 2018, 11:37:10 am »
How is the light pollution there?
The area is light yellow on the Bortle scale. Not bad but it could be better.
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Offline TEAgaming2154

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Re: AvatarMeet 2018 North America (ideas and such)
« Reply #76 on: January 19, 2018, 11:42:36 am »
From someone who lives in a very dark area, yellow is horrible. All light pollution is horrible.
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Offline Toliman

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Re: AvatarMeet 2018 North America (ideas and such)
« Reply #77 on: January 19, 2018, 11:55:03 am »
From someone who lives in a very dark area, yellow is horrible. All light pollution is horrible.
I agree completelly.

How is the light pollution there?
The area is light yellow on the Bortle scale. Not bad but it could be better.
Hmm ... yellow like this description?

Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: AvatarMeet 2018 North America (ideas and such)
« Reply #78 on: January 19, 2018, 02:50:16 pm »
That's the right table, ma Toliman.

I live in an orange zone, but am easy walking distance to a yellow zone, which is a bit odd.

Although good (especially public) astronomy can be done in a yellow zone, Illinois is a bit of a trip to bring a 'scope. Unless travel by train was possible.

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Re: AvatarMeet 2018 North America (ideas and such)
« Reply #79 on: January 19, 2018, 03:19:21 pm »
I live in an orange zone, but am easy walking distance to a yellow zone, which is a bit odd.
Hmm, I have it relatively similar.

Although good (especially public) astronomy can be done in a yellow zone.
Yeah, I know. For many people who live in big cities (red or white zones), experience with night sky even in yellow zone can be very surprising xD

« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 03:24:40 pm by Toliman »

 

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