Author Topic: 'Lu' (to be) Vs 'er' (infix for tense)  (Read 251 times)

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Offline Mäksì

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'Lu' (to be) Vs 'er' (infix for tense)
« on: June 23, 2017, 03:45:37 am »
I am going to start off by saying that I just signed up here and that I ask forgiveness if a new thread was not the best option to take for this, but I have been staring at this for hours now and need the help of sìlronsema Na'vi. (I'm sure I even mucked that up). But hey

Long story short, I have read through the 'Navi in a nutshell' and have grasped most of it (still trying to remember all the infixes, haha) and am slowly making my way through the vocabulary in the amazing dictionary by Mark Miller. But I understand that immersion into the language (the chat forums) is probably a good way to learn as well.

I'll just quickly ask here what the next best steps are to advance my Na'vi, as all this whole forum is rather daunting if I'm honest, (just looking for some direction I s'pose)

Anyway, the main question I have is with the title of this thread (the Lu verb 'to be [am, are, is]') as in "Po lu rim" 'he is yellow' compared to the infix -er- as in "Oe t-er-aron" 'I am hunting'. Is the former used to describe, and the later to show the tense in the verb such that they never cross over in purpose? Also, did I mess up any syntax or grammar on those simple phrases that may be causing my confusion?
I apologize if I have pourly explained myself, but any help is appreciated.
Cheers,

Offline eejmensenikbenhet

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Re: 'Lu' (to be) Vs 'er' (infix for tense)
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2017, 06:20:41 am »
Kaltxì ma Ronsem Anìftxavang ulte zola'eiu nìprrte',

The forum might look like an immense challenge, but from what I've learned in the past years the people inhabiting this forum are very friendly and always willing to help so don't hesitate to ask questions. I can recommend joining the LearnNa'vi Discord server as there's usually quite a buzz going on there and since Na'vi is a spoken language originally, it'll be a good tool to practice and learn.

As for your lu vs <er> question: you're getting it right. The verb "to be" in English is used when verbs change tense, like your example "I am hunting". Lu is a versatile verb, we use it to describe things like fìsyulan lu ean this flower is blue but also to denounce possession: oeru lu puk I have a book (literally a book is to me). To say I am hunting it is simply oe teraron which more literally means I hunt continually or I hunt in an ongoing fashion. You can even combine the two if you want: oe leru ngeyn I am being tired or more literally I am tired in an ongoing fashion, but I don't see the necessity of that.
I hope it makes sense, you were on the right track all along!

On a side note: nìftxavang is an adverb that means passionately. If you were going for passionate brain you should've used the adjective ftxavang so it would be Ronsem Aftxavang. Adverbs don't take the attributive -a-. ;)

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: 'Lu' (to be) Vs 'er' (infix for tense)
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2017, 12:28:07 pm »
Hi there! Welcome to the Learn Na'vi Forums :D

I'm just in to say hello and to second what EMIBH here said before me.  Your assumption was right about lu vs. <er> when you said this:
Quote
Is the former used to describe, and the later to show the tense in the verb such that they never cross over in purpose?

lu is not a helper verb; there are no helper verbs in Na'vi like in English. (in English, the main helper verbs are have and be, such that we have these kinds of sentences: "I am eating", "She has slept.")  For these, we have modified forms of the verb that involve inserting something inside, rather than use another verb such as lu.  Additionally, infixes such as <er> can only ever be inserted into verbs.  What I like to say to people when they first come across this is:

Quote
<er> = "be/am/is/are  ____ing"
<er> has the "be/am/is/are" baked in already so there is no need to use lu along with any other verb.

:ikran: 8)

Offline Mäksì

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Re: 'Lu' (to be) Vs 'er' (infix for tense)
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2017, 04:01:30 pm »
Thanks a ton guys. Irayo ma ayeylan. (is that right?) this might take a while haha. Oel tslolam set.

However, you say:
 but also to denounce possession: oeru lu puk I have a book (literally a book is to me). To say I am hunting it is simply oe teraron which more literally means I hunt continually or I hunt in an ongoing fashion.

I thought the -yä and -ä suffixes were used to show possession? Are these both valid to represent this, e.g. Oeyä puk. Are they just used in different situations?


« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 04:22:44 pm by Ronsem Anìftxavang »
Cheers,

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: 'Lu' (to be) Vs 'er' (infix for tense)
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2017, 04:09:01 pm »
Thanks a ton guys. Irayo ma ayeylan. (is that right?) this might take a while haha. Oel tslolam.
Kaltxì ma Ronsem Aftxavang,

Yeah «irayo ma ayeylan» is exactly right.  It takes a while for all of us :)

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Offline eejmensenikbenhet

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Re: 'Lu' (to be) Vs 'er' (infix for tense)
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2017, 08:31:39 pm »
However, you say:
 but also to denounce possession: oeru lu puk I have a book (literally a book is to me). To say I am hunting it is simply oe teraron which more literally means I hunt continually or I hunt in an ongoing fashion.

I thought the -yä and -ä suffixes were used to show possession? Are these both valid to represent this, e.g. Oeyä puk. Are they just used in different situations?
Yeah, that's right. Oeyä puk means my book but oeru lu puk means I have a book. So both concern possession but in a different way. In the first you're describing the fact that the book is yours and in the second you say that you have the book. Another example:
Kelku oeyä lu tsawl my house is big versus lu oeru kelku atsawl I have got a big house.

Offline Mech

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Re: 'Lu' (to be) Vs 'er' (infix for tense)
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2017, 03:59:09 pm »
lu is not a helper verb; there are no helper verbs in Na'vi like in English.
Isn't si considered a helper verb?

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: 'Lu' (to be) Vs 'er' (infix for tense)
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2017, 04:31:44 pm »
lu is not a helper verb; there are no helper verbs in Na'vi like in English.
Isn't si considered a helper verb?

there are no helper verbs in Na'vi at all.  The dictionary definition of si is really crazy and possibly misleading, but si is basically half a word. full words containing this word are all listed in the dictionary. such as irayo si, srung si, eltu si, etc. si cannot be used in any other way or stand alone, especially cannot be used as a helper verb like "be/am/is/are" or "do" in English. So, this isn't a thing in Na'vi: *oe si ke tslam (incredibly literally, i do not understand) It's just "oe ke tslam."

EDIT: To put it another way, si is just sort of like a particle that turns a word into a verb. But it's not freely productive; all acceptable verbs created in this way are listed and continue to be listed in the dictionary as more are added.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 04:36:45 pm by Tirea Aean »

Offline Mech

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Re: 'Lu' (to be) Vs 'er' (infix for tense)
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2017, 04:57:59 pm »
Hmm... si reminds me the Turkish auxiliary verb et-. It has the meaning "do, make" and is only used to create verbs from nouns. It is not productive either, so the verbs are fixed. It is used in expressions like tesekkur etmek "grant thanks = thank", salamlar etmek "relay greetings = greet", nefrit etmek "do hate = hate", merak etmek "do curiosity = worry"

The declension of these verbs is concentrated on the et- part, like with the si-verbs, so we have merak ederim "I worry", merak etmedim "I worried", merak etmedin "you worried" etc

I understand that si isn't used like English be, have, but like et-, they can both be described as auxiliary verbs.

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Re: 'Lu' (to be) Vs 'er' (infix for tense)
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2017, 09:14:32 pm »
Hmm... si reminds me the Turkish auxiliary verb et-. It has the meaning "do, make" and is only used to create verbs from nouns. It is not productive either, so the verbs are fixed. It is used in expressions like tesekkur etmek "grant thanks = thank", salamlar etmek "relay greetings = greet", nefrit etmek "do hate = hate", merak etmek "do curiosity = worry"

The declension of these verbs is concentrated on the et- part, like with the si-verbs, so we have merak ederim "I worry", merak etmedim "I worried", merak etmedin "you worried" etc

I understand that si isn't used like English be, have, but like et-, they can both be described as auxiliary verbs.
That's really cool! Had no idea about the similarities in Turkish. The similarity there is striking.

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