Author Topic: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II  (Read 10111 times)

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Offline Plumps

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #100 on: April 23, 2017, 11:19:03 am »
Ma archaic,

yes they are. Different word classes ;)

ketuwong is the noun, so “the alien”, i.e. creature
kewong is the adjective, so “alien, foreign” e.g. smell, country etc.

Also, I’d say …

nga fm(er)i kivar oer fya’ot a plltxe san irayo sìk nìlì’fya akewong.
you (are) trying to teach me the way (that is to) say “thanks” in an alien language.

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #101 on: April 23, 2017, 11:21:30 am »
nìlì'fya is interesting. What about fa lì'fya?

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Offline archaic

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #102 on: April 23, 2017, 11:33:27 am »
This a na'vi child talking to a human, if that makes any difference.
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Offline Plumps

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #103 on: April 23, 2017, 03:03:02 pm »
nìlì'fya is interesting. What about fa lì'fya?

I know, right?
It is even attested :o

here


Quote
Txampxìri suteyä, ke tsun fko nivume fte nìlì’fya amip pivlltxe nìltsan fa fwa tìng mikyun horenur nì’aw.

I never knew how to use it … but this seemed perfect for it.

Ma Archaic, no I don’t think that makes any difference ;)
We just don’t know too little about register and how Na’vi children might speak … if they would have oddities in their speech behaviour.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2017, 03:16:45 pm by Plumps »

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #104 on: April 23, 2017, 07:57:17 pm »
nìlì'fya is interesting. What about fa lì'fya?

I know, right?
It is even attested :o

here


Quote
Txampxìri suteyä, ke tsun fko nivume fte nìlì’fya amip pivlltxe nìltsan fa fwa tìng mikyun horenur nì’aw.

I never knew how to use it … but this seemed perfect for it.

WOU. What a hellova deep find. :O How did you find that? It wouldn't have been through a search..? And there we have it attested. Those are KP's original words as he spoke them that day. I remember watching this in a video somewhere back in the day.

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Offline Plumps

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #105 on: April 24, 2017, 10:31:53 am »
I asked Paul about it … that’s why I remember ;)

You got me worried there. :o For a moment I thought I forgot to inform you guys. But I posted his response on the Language Update/Frommer’s Blog section. You can find it here

Basically he’s saying that it’s not lì’fya that’s adverbalised but the whole noun phrase -[lì’fya amip]

Offline archaic

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #106 on: April 24, 2017, 02:19:30 pm »
[nga fm(er)i kivar oer fya’ot a plltxe san irayo sìk nìlì’fya akewong.
you (are) trying to teach me the way (that is to) say “thanks” in an alien language.[/size][/font]
Ma Plumps, is it OK to use "Nga fmeri kivar oer fya’ot a plltxe san irayo sìk nìlì’fya akewong." in one of my fanfics?
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Offline Plumps

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #107 on: April 24, 2017, 02:42:22 pm »
[nga fm(er)i kivar oer fya’ot a plltxe san irayo sìk nìlì’fya akewong.
you (are) trying to teach me the way (that is to) say “thanks” in an alien language.[/size][/font]
Ma Plumps, is it OK to use "Nga fmeri kivar oer fya’ot a plltxe san irayo sìk nìlì’fya akewong." in one of my fanfics?

Of course, it is ;)
I didn’t copyright it ;D

Offline archaic

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #108 on: April 24, 2017, 03:49:32 pm »
Irayo ma Plumps.  :D :D
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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #109 on: May 09, 2017, 08:42:15 pm »
Here is something i need to, but have not been able to find: how do you distinguish na'vi syllables? (i need to know this for infixes) :-\
- Nahura :ikran:

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #110 on: May 09, 2017, 09:01:08 pm »
Here is something i need to, but have not been able to find: how do you distinguish na'vi syllables? (i need to know this for infixes) :-\

Kaltxì Hippo!
  In the dictionary, the IPA shows syllables as periods and infix positions as center dots. For example from the dictionary, for the word fewi:

fewi: ['f·E.w·i]

  The syllable break is between the e and w. The infix positions are between the f and e, and w and i.  The ' denotes the stressed syllable.

-Markì


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Offline Wind12

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #111 on: May 09, 2017, 11:14:26 pm »


taluna, taweyk(a) and alunta are synonyms and in the case of taluna/alunta it’s just a matter of how you order your sentence
I'm not completely sure, whether taluna / taweyka are synonyms, although I can't see big difference:
taluna = from the reason, which is.... (ta lun a)
taweyka = from the cause, which is... (ta oeyk a).
eltur tìtxen si nìngay. Sadly since they are synonims it still gets me mixed up on memrise, hrh
Paul literally said 'take your pick'. They're synonymous. Maybe one can find a reason based on etymology why one would be more appropriate than the other in some cases but I think that would just be user preference.


Quote
There should be also "reverse" version of taweyka - aweykta, but surprisingly it is not stated in dictionary, so most probably it is not allowed. Does anybody know for sure?

I agree with this. I'm equally surprised that "aweykta" hasn't been officially released. I do suspect that it does exist but he maybe forgot to tell us. :-\

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #112 on: May 10, 2017, 01:26:25 pm »
About aweykta, it is noted in the Horen and we have it in the Czech version of both dictionary and grammar.
Although I can't recall any canonical source at this moment, I hope there is some...
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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #113 on: May 10, 2017, 01:43:43 pm »
In Horen it’s in magenta which means that it’s not an attested form.

I couldn’t find a source for aweykta as well. Btw, we included it as a question in the last proposal of the LEP. Hopefully we’ll get a confirmation soon.

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #114 on: May 10, 2017, 05:17:20 pm »
Here is something i need to, but have not been able to find: how do you distinguish na'vi syllables? (i need to know this for infixes) :-\

Kaltxì Hippo!
  In the dictionary, the IPA shows syllables as periods and infix positions as center dots. For example from the dictionary, for the word fewi:

fewi: ['f·E.w·i]

  The syllable break is between the e and w. The infix positions are between the f and e, and w and i.  The ' denotes the stressed syllable.

-Markì

Of all the words you could pick for an example, you picked a word that is at minimum irregular, or possibly is an error.

fewi: ['f·E.w·i]

Normally, /ew/ is a digraph representing a Na'vi dipthong. The first infix dot is in the right position for an ordinary word. However, a syllable break between /e/ and /w/ would be highly unusual. Especially when you consider you would pronounce this word as {FEW.i} (or possibly {few.I} at first blush. I know there are a couple of words where /ew/ is not a dipthong, and perhaps this is one of them. Is there any canonical source for this?

Ma HappyHippo77, in most cases the pre-first and first infix position is before the first vowel in the word (remembering that aw, ay, ew, ey, ll and rr are usually vowels as well), and second position infixes go before the second vowel. However, there are cases where the infixes go before later vowels, and these are usually compound words. After a while, the compound words get easy to spot. There are also verbs with just one vowel, and all infixes go before that vowel. Other than that, the infix positions are highly regular. When in doubt, the dictionary shows where they go.

A more typical word, and one used a lot for verb examples would be taron, 'hunt' {"t·a.r·on}.

In general, the rules for Na'vi syllabification are simple and easy to learn. A syllable consists of a vowel, which can optionally have 1 or (in some cases) 2 consonants before it, and optionally a consonant after it. The principle of maximum onset is generally followed, which means that the consonants generally go before the vowel when there is a choice. It is all clearly explained in Horen the reference grammar, in section 2.1.4.

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #115 on: May 11, 2017, 09:30:49 am »
Fewi as fe.wi is perfectly fine.

We know for a long time now that diphthongs will split in half every time if there's a vowel after. Diphthongs don't split only when they are the nucleus of a syllable, namely, the nucleus of the last syllable of a word.

irayo is another such example. Na'vi syllabification will always prefer this:

i.ra.jo

over

*i.raj.o



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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #116 on: May 12, 2017, 01:41:32 am »
Wow, the last time I posted my comment somehow got put in the middle of and as part of the quote part hrh :/

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #117 on: May 12, 2017, 03:49:51 pm »
So I have been pronouncing irayo wrong for seven years ;)

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #118 on: May 12, 2017, 03:52:25 pm »
But because /ay/ is pronounced as a long /i/, is the Y ever really voiced?

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #119 on: May 12, 2017, 03:57:53 pm »
But because /ay/ is pronounced as a long /i/, is the Y ever really voiced?
I don't think so?

Also, I was saying it wrong until I realized this fact about syllables splitting diphthongs in half and what irayo had apparently always been listed as.  To be honest though, I personally only hear like a 1% difference between i.ra.jo and i.raj.o, particularly in casual or fast speech. It's just like how no one in this community seriously says kameie with it's official syllable count of 4. despite this word being ka.mɜ.i.ɜ, it always seems to come out as ka.mɜ.jɜ or ka.mɜj.ɜ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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