Author Topic: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II  (Read 8845 times)

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Offline Eana Unil

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #80 on: February 22, 2017, 03:03:24 pm »
Thank you so much for your thoughts, my BE. :D

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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #81 on: February 22, 2017, 04:20:06 pm »
I so wish i had the time to make a thoughtful reply here. And by the time I do, it will be far too late. D;

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #82 on: February 22, 2017, 05:19:37 pm »
I so wish i had the time to make a thoughtful reply here. And by the time I do, it will be far too late. D;

It’s never too late to contribute, you know that ;)

It is weird to use ketsran as a conjunction because we are so used to the ftxey … ftxey … (ke) tsranten construct. But if you think about it, take another conjunction, e.g. slä, it will work the same way.

“It feels good to be back, but it hurts.”
=> Furia tolätxaw ’efu ye oe, slä (tsakem) tìsraw si (nìteng).

So, I’d say replace slä with ketsran and you’ll have a fine sentence :)

Furia tolätxaw ’efu ye oe, ketsran (tsakem) tìsraw si.

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #83 on: February 22, 2017, 06:22:39 pm »
! == TEXT WALL ALERT == ! ;D :palulukan:


I so wish i had the time to make a thoughtful reply here. And by the time I do, it will be far too late. D;

It’s never too late to contribute, you know that ;)

:D I'm glad. And so I shall make my contribution now. :ikran:

It is weird to use ketsran as a conjunction because we are so used to the ftxey … ftxey … (ke) tsranten construct. But if you think about it, take another conjunction, e.g. slä, it will work the same way.

“It feels good to be back, but it hurts.”
=> Furia tolätxaw ’efu ye oe, slä (tsakem) tìsraw si (nìteng).

So, I’d say replace slä with ketsran and you’ll have a fine sentence :)

Furia tolätxaw ’efu ye oe, ketsran (tsakem) tìsraw si.


I would say the same thing about this. The mere fact that ketsran is both an adjective and a conjunction is in itself interesting and weird.

K, guys, it's me again... ^^

I'm currently trying to translate stuffs for a new blogpost and I'm stuck on some sentences. Lemme hear what your thoughts are on this, rutxe :)

Hi! :D Sorry for late, but eh. Better late than never, 'en si oe..

Translation attempt: Teynga pìmtxan tìsraw si ke tsranten...
Intended meaning: No matter how much it hurts...

See above

How would you say "Now that...", in like "now, that the skypeople are gone, blabla can happen blabla"

I'm not sure how I feel about Blue Elf's version of "set, krra sawtute halmum...", as it says "Now, when the skypeople had left, {stuff}"

I like Vawmataw's version of "tawtute holum; set {stuff can happen}" since it captures the original meaning. I would probably have done just that myself.

What about feeling bad? Not sad, unhappy, not hungry, just bad, opposite of good. No fpom, just bad. 'efu fe'?

I think Blue Elf's ideas on this are pretty good. Tho looking at your question here...

Ke 'efu oe nitram; // this is basically saying "unhappy", which is what you weren't wanting
Sì'efu oeyä lu fe'; // interesting workaround, but for some reason, this doesn't feel conversationally natural to me.
Ke lu oer fpom; // This one I feel is the most conversationally natural and fits the best to what you're looking for.
Tìrey yak si // This one is interesting indeed. "Life diverges." I'm not sure what the connection is here unless this is a new Na'vi idiom I'm unaware of

It doesn't matter, if you go. Ketsran fwa txo nga kivä. Correct?

I agree with Blue Elf on this one too:

Ftxey nga kayä fuke ke tsranten;
Ftxey nga kayä fuke, oeru ke'u;
Ftxey nga kayä ftxey 'ì'awn, ke tsranten;
Ftxey nga kayä ftxey 'ì'awn, oeru ke'u.

(^To clarify his notation)

and I agree, *"Ketsran fwa"... doesn't seem correct.

Seems quite hard to use ketsran as conjunction.

Here is what Pawl says about ketsran:

Ketsrana tute a nivew hivum tsun tsakem sivi.
‘Whoever wants (or: may want) to leave can do so.’

Here ketsran is an adjective. The subject of the sentence is ketsrana tute, which is translated as ‘whoever,’ although it could just as well be ‘whatever person.’ Note that Na’vi doesn’t use pe- in such cases: you can’t say *ketsrana peu. (But see below.)

Sometimes, though, ketsran acts as a conjunction, linking a subordinate clause to the main clause. In such cases, of course, it doesn’t take the adjective -a-.

Ketsran tute nivew hivum, poru plltxe san rutxe ’ivì’awn.
‘No matter who wants (or: may want) to leave, tell them to please stay.’

In sentences like this one, it may be helpful to think of ketsran as occupying the same slot as other conjunctions, for example txo. (Txo tuteo nivew hivum, poru plltxe . . . )

What this means is:

Txo {stuff}, {stuff}. // "If {stuff}, {stuff}."

is a parallel structure to

ketsran {stuff}, {stuff}. // "no matter {stuff}, {stuff}."
                          // ketsran tute {verb phrase}, {stuff} = "no matter who {verb phrase}, {stuff}"
                          // kestran 'u/kem {verb phrase}, {stuff} = "no matter what {verb phrase}, {stuff}"


and so on.

So... back to the original "Ketsran fwa txo nga kivä."

ketsran = conj.
fwa = subordinator OR generic noun attributed to a description used as subject of vin. type verb
txo = conj.

So to use these three in a row isn't correct. Indeed something would be missing here because of the clauses introduced. The parse tree of clauses would look like this:


ketsran {
        fwa {
                txo {
                        nga kivä
                }
// (tsakrr {stuff} missing)
        }
// (intransitive verb done by fwa{stuff} missing)
}
// (, {stuff} missing; what will happen?)


Furia tolätxaw 'efu oe nitram ketsran tsaw tìsraw si - I feel happy that I'm returned, no matter that hurts.
Furia tolätxaw 'efu oe ye ulte teynga pìmtxan tsaw tìsraw si ke tsranten - I feel satisfied that I'm returned, and it doesn't matter how much it hurts.
Sunu fwa tätxaw ulte teynga pìmtxan tsaw tìsraw si ke tsranten - It's pleasant to return and it doesn't matter how much it hurts.
+ combinations...

Good attempts here too. Some quite verbose.

Personally, if I had to say this, like in conversation or something, I'd have said something like "Furia oe tolätxaw oeru teya si keng txo tìsraw si."

It's late and I'm confused, as always. ^^

Irayo nìli nìfrakrr :3

Frawzo. :3 Nìprrte'! :)

:toruk: 8)
« Last Edit: February 22, 2017, 06:26:19 pm by Tirea Aean »

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Offline archaic

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #84 on: February 25, 2017, 05:53:29 pm »
There is a space beneath a rock that is calling me. For now, I shall ignore it.
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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #85 on: February 25, 2017, 06:18:52 pm »
There is a space beneath a rock that is calling me. For now, I shall ignore it.
Yeah.... Looking back at my post, it is a bit over the top... I think I was writing too much code that day.

If anyone has any question on what I wrote I'd be happy to explain in a much simpler way. O_0

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Offline Eana Unil

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #86 on: February 25, 2017, 06:41:39 pm »
Thanks a ton to all who still replied. Made stuff clear for me :) I guess I got confused because I tried to use Pawl's example from here (last one), but well, there is always more than way to say something and your versions were really helpful :D

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #87 on: February 26, 2017, 10:28:28 am »
Kaltxì ma frapo, can someone suggest a translation for:

Quote
What would "As much" translate to? Such as in "I will have as much _ as I want"
Translate to something like "Any amount of"?

what about nìftxan and tìnew?
together
" TO such an extent that I desire"

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #88 on: February 26, 2017, 10:33:53 am »
Maybe it can be interpreted as ''all I want''.

Layu oer fra'u a oel new.

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #89 on: February 26, 2017, 10:37:48 am »
Maybe it can be interpreted as ''all I want''.

Layu oer fra'u a oel new.

Does it work for a specific 'wanted' subject?

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #90 on: February 26, 2017, 10:43:20 am »
A bit tricky. I don't know if ''all the X I want'' works.

I'll have as many arrows as I want.
Oer layu fraswizaw a oel new.
Lit.: To me will be every-arrow that I-erg want.

Yeah, maybe.

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #91 on: February 26, 2017, 11:05:52 am »
A bit tricky. I don't know if ''all the X I want'' works.

I'll have as many arrows as I want.
Oer layu fraswizaw a oel new.
Lit.: To me will be every-arrow that I-erg want.

Yeah, maybe.
I also think this suffices. :)

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #92 on: March 21, 2017, 12:43:03 am »
Kaltxì ma eylan. Oeru lu hola tìpawm...
As I am studing on memerise, as I learn new words, words with similar meanings are getting me mixed up.
Such as "pxel and na" "ta and ftu" and these "tafral, taluna, taweyk, and alunta" "neto and mìso"  I guess Im just having trouble getting them straight in my head.

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #93 on: March 21, 2017, 05:21:39 am »
Kaltxì ma eylan. Oeru lu hola tìpawm...
As I am studing on memerise, as I learn new words, words with similar meanings are getting me mixed up.
Such as "pxel and na" "ta and ftu" and these "tafral, taluna, taweyk, and alunta" "neto and mìso"  I guess Im just having trouble getting them straight in my head.

Ma Wind,

it’s true that they can be confusing. Some of them are synonyms, others have a slightly different meaning. Depending on which direction you’re learning and how the word is being presented on the English side it can be confusing to hit the right word.

pxel and na are synonyms and almost always interchangeable. The only example that I can think of is zet pxel “treat as/like”, there pxel is required.

ftu is “from (a direction/place)”. It’s the oposite of ne if that helps you further, txo nga kivä ne na’rìng, tsakrr nga tayätxaw ftu tsatseng. ;)
ta is a more conceptual “from”, e.g. “I got this from a friend,” “a message from Pawl,” “a bow from the wood of Hometree.”

tafral comes from ta fìral, “it rained all day, tafral I couldn’t work in the garden.”
taluna, taweyk(a) and alunta are synonyms and in the case of taluna/alunta it’s just a matter of how you order your sentence (that’s always the confusing part for me too and I dread the day I’ll have to make a video on that :P ) … you can say:

     taluna zup tompa fìtrro, ke tsolun oe kivä wrrpa.
     “because it rained all day, I couldn’t go outside”
or
     zup tompa fìtrro alunta, ke tsolun oe kivä wrrpa.

Remember that a introduces the relative clause. If you see in which direction a is pointing, you see which is the subordinate clause.

Other word orders are possible as well:

     ke tsolun oe kivä wrrpa, taluna zup tompa fìtrro.

I don’t know, but technically it should be possible to do this as well:

     ke tsolun oe kivä wrrpa, zup tompa fìtrro alunta.

But maybe that’s too weird for our brains to handle :P

The difference between neto and mìso is simply a matter of position vs. movement.

     Kä neto.
     “Go away.” (movement)
vs.
     ’Ì’awn mìso.
     “Stay away.” (Position)

They basically come from a form of ne and , if you think about it; ne is usually used with verbs of movement, kä, za’u etc. and denotes a position.

I hope that helps to untie ngeyä fta a mì eltu ;)

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #94 on: March 21, 2017, 04:29:17 pm »
Ngeyä aylì'uri, Oe irayo seri, ma Plumps. salì'u srung seri oeru, ha Oel tslolam set.  :)

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #95 on: March 24, 2017, 02:24:13 pm »
taluna, taweyk(a) and alunta are synonyms and in the case of taluna/alunta it’s just a matter of how you order your sentence
I'm not completely sure, whether taluna / taweyka are synonyms, although I can't see big difference:
taluna = from the reason, which is.... (ta lun a)
taweyka = from the cause, which is... (ta oeyk a).
There should be also "reverse" version of taweyka - aweykta, but surprisingly it is not stated in dictionary, so most probably it is not allowed. Does anybody know for sure?
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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #96 on: March 24, 2017, 02:58:40 pm »


taluna, taweyk(a) and alunta are synonyms and in the case of taluna/alunta it’s just a matter of how you order your sentence
I'm not completely sure, whether taluna / taweyka are synonyms, although I can't see big difference:
taluna = from the reason, which is.... (ta lun a)
taweyka = from the cause, which is... (ta oeyk a).

Paul literally said 'take your pick'. They're synonymous. Maybe one can find a reason based on etymology why one would be more appropriate than the other in some cases but I think that would just be user preference.


Quote
There should be also "reverse" version of taweyka - aweykta, but surprisingly it is not stated in dictionary, so most probably it is not allowed. Does anybody know for sure?

I agree with this. I'm equally surprised that "aweykta" hasn't been officially released. I do suspect that it does exist but he maybe forgot to tell us. :-\

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #97 on: March 24, 2017, 04:07:52 pm »
This is actually quite helpful.

The question involving aweykta would be a good one to include in the next LEP submission, whenever that happens.

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #98 on: March 31, 2017, 04:05:06 pm »
This is actually quite helpful.

The question involving aweykta would be a good one to include in the next LEP submission, whenever that happens.
Good idea, added to submission document.
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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (Please ask your questions here) - II
« Reply #99 on: April 23, 2017, 10:56:19 am »
Is there any difference between Ketuwaong and Kewong, or are they truly synonymous?


Also, how would I say .....

"You are trying to teach me 'Thank You' in the alien language."

(I got "Ngal oeti kar fmi irayo niketuwong.")
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