[For Beginners] FAQ

Started by Eywayä mokri, December 27, 2009, 06:46:34 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Taronyu Leleioae

#1360
Quote from: Mr. HelloBye on April 27, 2013, 06:01:06 PM
Well, what does <iv> do exactly then? Or for that matter, what about <ìyev>, <iyev>, <imv>, <iv>, <ilv>, and <irv> all mean? And a good example of a use of this infix from the movie would be "skiva'a"

Kaltxì ma Mr. HelloBye!     ;D


I think the easiest way to explain this from a native english speaking person's point of view, is that in english, we can say combinations of words such as, "I had walked to the forest."  (Most important, are the two words had & walked.)  In the Na'vi language, rather than having helper words such as have or had, or might have, or will have..., this information about time and/or aspect (whether whatever you did is done or still continuing), is turned into a simple or compound (meaning two infixes merged together).  Then you put this infix inside your verb as part of the word.  So not only do you need to learn what the word means in its base form, you also need to be able to recognize the infix and what it means.

So to use as an example, "I had walked to the forest.".  We have "had verbed" which is a compound infix of <am> & <ol> which becomes the infix <alm>.

Thus...  "I walk to the forest" translates to "Oe tìran ne na'rìng."
To change this to "had walked", we add the <alm> infix inside in front of the second vowel.
So this becomes, "Oe t<alm>ìran ne na'rìng."


As to the use of the <iv>, it has a number of uses.  If alone with one verb, it means "may verb".  However there are other types of verbs called models where you put two verbs together where the first one is very specific.  (There are 12 I believe...)  So to say, "I must go", this would be "Oe zene k<iv>ä."



I agree that Horen leNa'vi is the most detailed resource and is the most up to date.  However it can also be a bit complicated.  For explaining verbs including modal verbs in particular (although fyi that there are some missing modal verbs in that list), the "Na'vi in a Nutshell" is a good learning tool and explains all about verbs and infixes in Chapter 5.

That cheat sheet reference chart that Tìtstewan posted the link to, is very helpful.  Gives you a quick look to make sure you have the right infix.  It is not often that you will use the compound <iv> infixes such as ilv, imv, iyev.  But they are still important to understand so that you can recognize them and look them up, if needed, as you learn more about the Na'vi langauge.  :)



Tìtstewan

Quote from: Mr. HelloBye on April 27, 2013, 07:08:03 PM
This is awesome! Where did you find it?!
This file I got from there [For Beginners] Links to useful documents. Here you can find a lots of links for learning resources. Also check this, Media. ;)
Here Appeal to everyone who begins to study Na'vi are really good information for a beginner. ;)

Quote from: Mr. HelloBye on April 27, 2013, 07:08:03 PM
Also, is the workbook by Skxawng sufficient to get me fairly advanced?
I can't say this exactly, because it is individual.

-| Na'vi Vocab + Audio | Na'viteri as one HTML file | FAQ | Useful Links for Beginners |-
-| Kem si fu kem rä'ä si, ke lu tìfmi. |-

Tirea Aean


Mr. HelloBye

Also, how do you determine when to not use the -l/ìl, is it when there's no objects and only a subject?

Tìtstewan

Just like this example:
Oel tse'a - I see
Subject transitive verb


Oel tse'a ngati. - I see you.
Subject transitive verb Object

-| Na'vi Vocab + Audio | Na'viteri as one HTML file | FAQ | Useful Links for Beginners |-
-| Kem si fu kem rä'ä si, ke lu tìfmi. |-

Mr. HelloBye

Ok, I did a little research and found that Na'vi is an 'active language' and some thing are different about it, such as how agentive is used instead of nominative and patientive instead of accusative, and because of that the rules for things like that are different. Interesting...

Tìtstewan

Well, here is a little example about the difference:

The Yerik hear us. => ayyerikìl awngati stawm.
We hear the Yerik. => ayyerikit awngal stawm.


Depending on how you placed the suffixes, results in different meanings.

-| Na'vi Vocab + Audio | Na'viteri as one HTML file | FAQ | Useful Links for Beginners |-
-| Kem si fu kem rä'ä si, ke lu tìfmi. |-

Mr. HelloBye

#1367
I'm not exactly clear on something, and this is also a problem I have with Slavic languages; how do perfective and imperfective work in the future? Is it whether I plan on finishing it? This just hasn't ever really been made clear to me. Thanks!

Edit: I also don't exactly understand the use of -a- for phrases. The example for this on projectngaynume.com is 'Oel tsole'a tsatutanit a nga polom'
Thanks!

Blue Elf

Quote from: Mr. HelloBye on April 27, 2013, 07:08:03 PM
This is awesome! Where did you find it?!
Also, is the workbook by Skxawng sufficient to get me fairly advanced? Or are there other more complete things than projectngaynume.com and more organised than Na'viteri (because it's a blog, so it's chronological)? I ask this because reading from the Dictionary and Horen isn't a very good way to learn a language, I've learned a language before, that's how I know (German, with some bits of others like Spanish and Russian). Irayo, and I hope that you guys don't write me off as a pest.
I'm afraid Skxawng's workbook is outdated these days. There was quite good workbook by Kaltxì palulukan (although it still contains some inaccuracies). See this post.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Tìtstewan

Quote from: Mr. HelloBye on April 28, 2013, 12:47:13 PM
I'm not exactly clear on something, and this is also a problem I have with Slavic languages; how do perfective and imperfective work in the future? Is it whether I plan on finishing it? This just hasn't ever really been made clear to me. Thanks!
I think, you mean the tempus of verbs?
Imperfective:
Oe kämerakto.

Perfective:
Oe kämolakto.


Close past Imperfective:
Oe kämìrmakto.

Close past Perfective:
Oe kämìlmakto.



Simple past Imperfective:
Oe kämarmakto.

Simple past Perfective:
Oe kämalmakto.


Quote from: Mr. HelloBye on April 28, 2013, 12:47:13 PM
Edit: I also don't exactly understand the use of -a- for phrases. The example for this on projectngaynume.com is 'Oel tsole'a tsatutanit a nga polom'
Thanks!
This is too dificult for me to explain it. But just see there Attributive "a" and Truncated Style

-| Na'vi Vocab + Audio | Na'viteri as one HTML file | FAQ | Useful Links for Beginners |-
-| Kem si fu kem rä'ä si, ke lu tìfmi. |-

Mr. HelloBye

I know how to say what you just showed, I just don't know how to use the future imperfective and perfective

Tìtstewan

#1371
The future?
Let me think about..


Close future Imperfective:
Oe kämìryakto.

Close future Perfective:
Oe kämìlyakto.



Future Imperfective:
Oe kämaryakto.

Future Perfective:
Oe kämalyakto.



From the Horen leNa'vi (3.6):
Tense onlyPerfectiveImperfective
Future‹ay›, ‹asy›‹aly›‹ary›
Near future‹ìy›, ‹ìsy›‹ìly› ‹ìry›
General‹ol›‹er›
Near past‹ìm›‹ìlm› ‹ìrm›
Past‹am› ‹alm›‹arm›

-| Na'vi Vocab + Audio | Na'viteri as one HTML file | FAQ | Useful Links for Beginners |-
-| Kem si fu kem rä'ä si, ke lu tìfmi. |-

Mr. HelloBye

No... I know how to say it, I don't know in what context to use it...

On that Na'viteri page, the word 'Txantsana' is used, Great (something), and I can't figure out what that something is

Tìtstewan

This -a- you mean!

Txantsana säfpìl - great idea
this -a- shows in the direction of a noun which you describe.

-| Na'vi Vocab + Audio | Na'viteri as one HTML file | FAQ | Useful Links for Beginners |-
-| Kem si fu kem rä'ä si, ke lu tìfmi. |-

Mr. HelloBye

#1374
-a- in the sense where you use it to make an adjective phrase or something, for example, what does this mean:
Oel tsole'a tsatutanit a nga polom.

Edit: I looked Txantsan and found it in the dictionary, I had looked for txan only before, and I know how to use -a- like that, just not like "(something) a (something)".

Edit: Ok, I think I kinda got it, 'Oel tsole'a tsatutanit a nga polom' means 'I say that guy that you kissed' where the 'that you kissed' saying which, or describing, the guy of topic.

Tirea Aean

I try to explain -a- here:

http://tirea.learnnavi.org/posts/four.html

And to be brutally honest, Future+Aspect is Mega rare to even see used. But let's just say
"I will be verb-ing ..."              ary
"I will have verb-ed..."             aly
"I am about to be verb-ing.."     ìry
"I am about to have verb-ed..."  ìly

and so on.

Blue Elf

Quote from: Mr. HelloBye on April 28, 2013, 01:25:54 PM
I know how to say what you just showed, I just don't know how to use the future imperfective and perfective
Its simple: future perfective = <aly/ìly>, some action will be finished in future
future imperfective = <aty/ìry>, some action will be in progress in the future (I'll be working on that job tomorrow)
Ok, TA was faster....

About -a-:
when you describe noun by adjective, adjective takes -a- on the side nearer to noun:
good idea = sìltsan-a säfpìl or säfpìl a-sìltsan
You can use two adjectives on single noun:
nice little bird = lor-a yayo a-hì'i or hì'i-a yayo a-lor
BUT if you want to put both adjectives to the same side:
bird which is nice and little: yayo a lu lor sì hì'i or lor sì hì'i lu a yayo.

So: if adjective is connected to noun, add -a- to side nearest to noun
If adjective is used with lu, it DO NOT takes -a-.

If a is used in complex sentence, it means "that, which"

tutan a ngal tse'a lu karyu oeyä.
Man which you see is my teacher
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Plumps

Quote from: Mr. HelloBye on April 28, 2013, 01:46:29 PMOk, I think I kinda got it, 'Oel tsole'a tsatutanit a nga polom' means 'I say that guy that you kissed' where the 'that you kissed' saying which, or describing, the guy of topic.

Actually, that's an ambiguous sentence because there is no case ending on nga 'you'. It could either mean '... the man who you kissed' or '... the man who kissed you'. I think another L or T ending is needed ;)

oel tsole'a tsatutanit a ngal polom.
I've seen that man who you've kissed.

oel tsole'a tsatutanit a ngati polom.
I've seen that man who has kissed you.

Mr. HelloBye

How would one say that "It's raining"?
And in the sentence "Tsole'a ngal tsatutanit a lu tsewtx sì ean srak?, the "srak" isn't part of the adjective phrase, right?

Tìtstewan

#1379
Quote from: Mr. HelloBye on April 28, 2013, 03:42:27 PM
How would one say that "It's raining"?
Tsaw tompa seri. - It (still) raining[/i]
But I'm not sure if is correct, because we havn't a word for raining yet.
Edit: fail of myself. :-X


Quote from: Mr. HelloBye on April 28, 2013, 03:42:27 PM
And in the sentence "Tsole'a ngal tsatutanit a lu tsewtx sì ean srak?, the "srak" isn't part of the adjective phrase, right?
srak is a particle for a yes/no question.

-| Na'vi Vocab + Audio | Na'viteri as one HTML file | FAQ | Useful Links for Beginners |-
-| Kem si fu kem rä'ä si, ke lu tìfmi. |-