[For Beginners] FAQ

Started by Eywayä mokri, December 27, 2009, 06:46:34 AM

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Blue Elf

Quote from: Mr. HelloBye on May 01, 2013, 11:26:42 AM
So if you have multiple infixes in the same spot (not the aspect+tense infix combinations), like of you wanted to say "they happily slept", could you say either 'Mefo heiyìlyahaw' or 'Mefo heìlyeiahaw' or does it matter? Or does this work exactly?
Note that you CAN'T put more infixes into the same position (with one exception):
h<0><1>ah<2>aw
position 0 is for causative <eyk> and reflexive <äp>. Only these two can be combined into <äpeyk> (if it gives sense, of course)
position 1 is for time and aspect infixes, like <am, ìm, ìy, ay>, <ol, er> and their combinations. Also subjunctive <iv> goes to this position
and position 2 is for expressing mood of the speaker: <ei, äng, ats, uy>.
You can't put <ei> into position 0 or 1, so your example abovi would be correctly h<ìly>ah<ei>aw
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Mr. HelloBye

#1421
But why would you say 'Mefo haheiaw' if YOU are happy about it? Oughtn't it be the subject that's happy about it? And I forgot about <ei> being a second position infix

Mr. HelloBye

#1422
Where might I find a list of all 12 or however many modal verbs? And how would you combine something like <iv> <ay> and <er>?

Mr. HelloBye

And pronunciation-wise, how do 'ey' and 'ei' sound different?

Blue Elf

Quote from: Mr. HelloBye on May 02, 2013, 05:11:54 AM
But why would you say 'Mefo haheiaw' if YOU are happy about it? Oughtn't it be the subject that's happy about it? And I forgot about <ei> being a second position infix
<ei> and <äng> is always about feelings of the speaker, it's rule; "Mefo haheiaw" means They two sleep and I feel happy about (finally! now I can rest too). If you want to say, that someone else is happy about, you must do it different way:

Furia meveng peyä hahaw, sa'nok 'efu nitram -> Mother feel happy that her two children sleep.

QuoteWhere might I find a list of all 12 or however many modal verbs? And how would you combine something like <iv> <ay> and <er>?
In dictionary, of course :) Search for verbs marked vim. or vtrm. They are:

tsun, new, fmi, zene, zenke, sngä'i, kan, var, ftang, may', sto

Have I forgot any?
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Tirea Aean

Quote from: Mr. HelloBye on May 02, 2013, 05:21:46 AM
Where might I find a list of all 12 or however many modal verbs? And how would you combine something like <iv> <ay> and <er>?

you can't combine three things into one. You can't combine ary (er+ay/ìy) with iv. You can only combine ay/ìy with iv to get iyev and er with iv to get irv.

exhaustive list of combination infixes:

arm alm imv
ìrm ìlm imv
irv ilv
ary aly iyev (or ìyev)
ìry ìly iyev (or ìyev)

Quote from: Mr. HelloBye on May 02, 2013, 05:28:21 AM
And pronunciation-wise, how do 'ey' and 'ei' sound different?

ey is a diphthong, like a vowel merger that is contained in one syllable. ei is technically two syllables. This difference would be most noticeable if the stress happened to fall on the i of ei. But you're right. ey and ei sound remarkably similar.

Taronyu Leleioae

#1426
Quote from: Blue Elf on May 02, 2013, 06:08:27 AM
QuoteWhere might I find a list of all 12 or however many modal verbs? ...
In dictionary, of course :) Search for verbs marked vim. or vtrm. They are:

tsun, new, fmi, zene, zenke, sngä'i, kan, var, ftang, may', sto

Have I forgot any?

nulnew (to prefer)

(and that makes 12!)

================

Just a helpful reminder with nulnew..., this particular verb is treated similar to a compound verb (meaning two words that have come together).  It was derived from the modal verb "new" = to want.  Thus your infixes all go into the [new] part > nuln<1><2>ew instead of before the second vowel.  You will come across these compound verbs from time to time and simply need to understand how to apply infixes to them.  (Another example that is non-modal would be yomtìng = to feed.)

Mr. HelloBye

What does the 'nul-' prefix do? I couldn't find "may'". I found in the phrase section 'srake fnan ngal lì'fyati leNa'vi?' I thought that 'srak' was supposed to go at the end of a question always, and why does it have -e as a suffix?

Mr. HelloBye


Vawmataw

#1429
Quote from: Mr. HelloBye on May 02, 2013, 06:01:57 PM
What does the 'nul-' prefix do?
Nothing, except being in two words. This prefix doesn't exist. I don't know why Karyu Pawl (Paul Frommer, the main creator of Na'vi language) added nul- to the verb new and the noun krr to create new words.

Quote from: Mr. HelloBye on May 02, 2013, 06:01:57 PM
I couldn't find "may'".
Use tsun (and because it is a modal, add infix -iv- to the verb linked to it. Ex: Oe tsun yivom nìnäk talun snaytx aysreti nìwotx. I can eat in a liquid way, because I don't have teeth anymore.). It means also to can and to be able.
EDIT: Whoops, I confused may' and the English modal may.  :-[

Quote from: Mr. HelloBye on May 02, 2013, 06:01:57 PM
I found in the phrase section 'srake fnan ngal lì'fyati leNa'vi?' I thought that 'srak' was supposed to go at the end of a question always, and why does it have -e as a suffix?
Srake is equal to srak. Their only difference is that srak goes at the end of the sentence (as the last word) and srake at the beginning (as the first word). You can use one of them whenever you want when there's a yes/no question.

You'll see that with srane and sran. They both mean yes, but sran is the colloquial form of srane.

-e is not a suffix.
EDIT: BECOMING STUPID!

Quote from: Mr. HelloBye on May 02, 2013, 06:15:40 PM
Also, how does stress work?
What do you mean?
Fmawn Ta 'Rrta - News IN NA'VI ONLY (Discord)
Traducteur francophone de Kelutral.org, dict-navi et Reykunyu

Alyara Arati

Quote from: Mr. HelloBye on May 02, 2013, 06:01:57 PM
What does the 'nul-' prefix do? I couldn't find "may'". I found in the phrase section 'srake fnan ngal lì'fyati leNa'vi?' I thought that 'srak' was supposed to go at the end of a question always, and why does it have -e as a suffix?

To be more specific, nul is a shortening of nì'ul, more, which K. Pawl added to new.  So prefer comes from want more, if that helps you remember it.

Also may' is the word for try out, "test drive".  It should be in the dictionary.  Where were you looking for it that you couldn't find it?

Good for you to be asking so many questions and learning so fast. :)
Learn how to see.  Realize that everything connects to everything else.
~ Leonardo da Vinci

Vawmataw

Quote from: Alyara Arati on May 02, 2013, 06:37:58 PM
Quote from: Mr. HelloBye on May 02, 2013, 06:01:57 PM
What does the 'nul-' prefix do? I couldn't find "may'". I found in the phrase section 'srake fnan ngal lì'fyati leNa'vi?' I thought that 'srak' was supposed to go at the end of a question always, and why does it have -e as a suffix?

To be more specific, nul is a shortening of nì'ul, more, which K. Pawl added to new.  So prefer comes from want more, if that helps you remember it.

Also may' is the word for try out, "test drive".  It should be in the dictionary.  Where were you looking for it that you couldn't find it?

Good for you to be asking so many questions and learning so fast. :)
I confused may' and the English modal may:-[ I edited my message.
Good to specify the origins of nul. Karyu Pawl is very smart.

I hope I have well answered for srake and srak.

EDIT:
Quote from: Tirea Aean on May 02, 2013, 06:44:38 PM
Quote from: Kameyu a Kepekmì on May 02, 2013, 06:23:53 PM
-e is not a suffix.

It is a non-productive suffix that means female.
Ok. From now on, I continue to learn Na'vi, or I will become stupid.  :-[
Fmawn Ta 'Rrta - News IN NA'VI ONLY (Discord)
Traducteur francophone de Kelutral.org, dict-navi et Reykunyu

Tirea Aean

Quote from: Kameyu a Kepekmì on May 02, 2013, 06:23:53 PM
-e is not a suffix.

It is a non-productive suffix that means female. But in this case, srak is just an alterate form of the root srake as you said.

Quote from: Mr. HelloBye on May 02, 2013, 06:15:40 PM
Also, how does stress work?

As for stress... In English, compare the stress of the following two and three syllable words:

into (stress on first syllable)
complete (stress is on second syllable)
fortunate (stress is on first)
including (stress is on second)
incomplete (stress is on third)

in the Na'vi Dictionary, you can tell which syllable the stress is on by looking between the square brackets IPA. The thin tall apostrophe looking thing means primary stress. Whatever syllable that comes at the beginning of is the stressed syllable.

Blue Elf

Quote from: Mr. HelloBye on May 02, 2013, 06:01:57 PM
What does the 'nul-' prefix do? I couldn't find "may'".
that's probably because some viewers interpret ' and ' as different characters, while others (like Acrobat Reader) do not differs them. Try to search for may' (' is Alt+0146 on Windows systems)
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Mr. HelloBye

I looked for it in the M section. After this is answered, how would one say 'I want to hunt (and enjoy it in the future)' Is this even possible? Would you have to set the tense in a different clause? How would one structure that sentence? Speaking of that, how does punctuation work (I understand that it's a vocal language, but where does one articulate pauses)?

Tirea Aean

Quote from: Mr. HelloBye on May 03, 2013, 05:10:56 AM
I looked for it in the M section. After this is answered, how would one say 'I want to hunt (and enjoy it in the future)' Is this even possible? Would you have to set the tense in a different clause? How would one structure that sentence?

and enjoy it in the future? There's no infix for that. If you say I want to hunt, it's

Oe new tivaron.

in simplest form. Adding the positive mood of speaker it is this:

oe neiew tivaron.

There isn't future yet, so let's add that:

Oe nayeiew tivaron.

This would mean, "I will want to hunt :D"

so there really isn't a good way to say what you want unless you literally say something like:

Oe new tivaron ulte oel new futa tsakem prrte' livu oer mì zusawkrr.

I want to hunt and I want that action to be pleasurable to me in the future.

QuoteSpeaking of that, how does punctuation work (I understand that it's a vocal language, but where does one articulate pauses)?
So far, there are no rules at all about punctuation. So really you could just type out a all lower case string of words and that would be fine. But it would be easier to copy English's capitalisation and punctuation rules concerning colon, semicolon, comma, and full stop. Basically, the transcript was created for English-speaking people so it makes sense that pauses and such are transcribed in the same way it is in English.

Mr. HelloBye

What is the verb for 'look' as in
You look good. Or in German, 'Du siehst schoen aus'.
And would you use a suffix, if so, which one, in either case, why?

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä

Quote from: Mr. HelloBye on May 10, 2013, 09:16:17 PM
What is the verb for 'look' as in
You look good. Or in German, 'Du siehst schoen aus'.
And would you use a suffix, if so, which one, in either case, why?

There are several ways you could say this.

'ur ngeyä lu sìltsan   'ur = 'sight, look, appearance', with 'appearance' being the right definition here.
tìlam ngeyä lu sìltsan   tìlam = 'appearance'.
mì fpom a lam nga or perhaps
mì fpomtokx a lam nga if meant to apply to the health of your friend.

I suspect there are a number of other ways to express this idea.

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Tirea Aean

Quote from: `Eylan Ayfalulukanä on May 10, 2013, 09:36:48 PM
Quote from: Mr. HelloBye on May 10, 2013, 09:16:17 PM
What is the verb for 'look' as in
You look good. Or in German, 'Du siehst schoen aus'.
And would you use a suffix, if so, which one, in either case, why?

There are several ways you could say this.

'ur ngeyä lu sìltsan   'ur = 'sight, look, appearance', with 'appearance' being the right definition here.
tìlam ngeyä lu sìltsan   tìlam = 'appearance'.
mì fpom a lam nga or perhaps
mì fpomtokx a lam nga if meant to apply to the health of your friend.


I suspect there are a number of other ways to express this idea.


I'd say Ngari 'ur fkan ((oeru)) lor.

Check out this post for more on this:

http://naviteri.org/2012/11/renu-ayinanfyaya-the-senses-paradigm/

More specifically, the Middle Voice section.

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä


Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]