Author Topic: [For Beginners] FAQ  (Read 49103 times)

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Offline Txur’Itan

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (please ask your questions here)
« Reply #80 on: December 31, 2009, 04:21:25 am »
i noticed that people use 'tsahaylu' and 'tsaheylu' in similar quantities. as far as i remember, actors were pronouncing it 'tsaheylu' very clearly, but now i am getting confused...

"Tsahaylu" is how it is spelled in the vocab lists, but I get that Neytiri has fluctuating pronunciation, "this is sey-hey-loo, the bond"  when she is talking to Jake about riding the Pa'li (direhorse), "sa-hey-loo, jake, sa-hey-loo" when he is tackling the Ikran. 

http://www.learnnavi.org/navi-vocabulary/
http://www.suburbandestiny.com/?p=611
http://www.learnnavi.org/navi-phonetics/

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Offline Doolio

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (please ask your questions here)
« Reply #81 on: December 31, 2009, 04:41:59 am »
hm, i watched the movie for the last two times paying extreme attention to it and she clearly says 'tsa-hay-loo' every time, nowhere near 'tsa-high-loo' or even 'tsay-hay-loo' (even if she says it like you wrote, she still never says 'high'). it 'tsa-hay-loo' i am 99% certain. if it was 'tsahaylu' it would read 'tsa-high-loo'. i mean, if i heard neytiri saying it and if i did not know the word (but knew na'vi phonetics), i would purely phonetically put it on paper as 'tsaheylu' or maybe 'tsaheilu', but never 'tsahaylu'.

i am aware of those links, that is why i got confused in the first place:) and now i am confused even more. maybe the actors were 'englifying' it pronuncing 'hay' as it were in english, but frommer would correct them, no doubt...

if 'tsahaylu' is correct, than it is pronounced 'tsa-high-loo' which is nowhere near neytiri's pronunciation. i am not saying the vocab is wrong, but if vocab isn't wrong, than neytiri is. because it is not so minor difference, they are different vowels. they are not that similar either, it would be different if it was 'a' vs 'ä', that could pass, but it is 'a' vs 'e'.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2009, 04:51:29 am by Doolio »
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Offline Txur’Itan

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (please ask your questions here)
« Reply #82 on: December 31, 2009, 05:26:52 am »
hm, i watched the movie for the last two times paying extreme attention to it and she clearly says 'tsa-hay-loo' every time, nowhere near 'tsa-high-loo' or even 'tsay-hay-loo' (even if she says it like you wrote, she still never says 'high'). it 'tsa-hay-loo' i am 99% certain. if it was 'tsahaylu' it would read 'tsa-high-loo'. i mean, if i heard neytiri saying it and if i did not know the word (but knew na'vi phonetics), i would purely phonetically put it on paper as 'tsaheylu' or maybe 'tsaheilu', but never 'tsahaylu'.

i am aware of those links, that is why i got confused in the first place:) and now i am confused even more. maybe the actors were 'englifying' it pronuncing 'hay' as it were in english, but frommer would correct them, no doubt...

if 'tsahaylu' is correct, than it is pronounced 'tsa-high-loo' which is nowhere near neytiri's pronunciation. i am not saying the vocab is wrong, but if vocab isn't wrong, than neytiri is. because it is not so minor difference, they are different vowels. they are not that similar either, it would be different if it was 'a' vs 'ä', that could pass, but it is 'a' vs 'e'.

You make a valid point.

Neyteri is speaking Na'vi with a partial American accent, the "ay" phonetics she uses comes from the way "say" is pronounced.

The vocabulary as it is currently spelled is part of proliferating corpus; in short the phonetics in the published documentation potentially coming from Dr. Frommer may eventually contradict the corpus and the spelling on the site will have to change.  For now it is "Tsahaylu"...
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Offline Doolio

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (please ask your questions here)
« Reply #83 on: December 31, 2009, 05:29:09 am »
that's what i wanted to know, irayo:)
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Offline Atanä mungeyu

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (please ask your questions here)
« Reply #84 on: December 31, 2009, 05:35:00 am »
it's tsaheylu but zoe saldana isn't that good at pronounciation XD
she says tsahaylu but it's wrong...

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Offline Doolio

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (please ask your questions here)
« Reply #85 on: December 31, 2009, 05:43:28 am »
wait wat?:)

if it is tsaheylu, then zoe is pronounciating it perfectly (tsa-hay-loo). if it were tsahaylu, then she'd be wrong.
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Offline Eywayä mokri

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (please ask your questions here)
« Reply #86 on: December 31, 2009, 06:02:59 am »
For now, this is Tsahaylu. Keep learning it that way. :) This is how it has been written so far. ;)
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Offline Kifkeyit ftiayu

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (please ask your questions here)
« Reply #87 on: December 31, 2009, 06:17:53 am »
Kaltxì ma smuktu!

I've a question about "have"...

The sentence "I've no time" can be translate by "Oel kehe krrä", right?
« Last Edit: December 31, 2009, 06:20:25 am by Teras »

Offline Doolio

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (please ask your questions here)
« Reply #88 on: December 31, 2009, 07:15:28 am »
For now, this is Tsahaylu. Keep learning it that way. :) This is how it has been written so far. ;)
okay, something colossal just crossed my mind :D
let's say it is 'tsahaylu', but when neytiri is addressing jake considering tsahaylu, she is talking in english. we do not have appropriate word for 'tsahaylu' because 'bond' doesn't describe it adequately. so, neytiri is 'anglizing' the word for jake, deforming it's pronunciation, because she is 'talking english'. it is same with 'kunsip', only other way around.

the thing that also supports this 'theory' could be the lack of vocative. 'jake' would have to be put in vocative in sentence like 'tsahaylu, jake' if it was in na'vi.


so, in english:

"tsa-hay-loo", jake


in na'vi:

tsahaylu, ma jake


voila :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 2009, 07:17:11 am by Doolio »
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Offline Taronyu Ayunilyä Alahe

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (please ask your questions here)
« Reply #89 on: December 31, 2009, 09:57:41 am »
is this the iv infix mystery broken?

Perfective (pfv)            ol
Imperfective (imfv)    er
Subjunctive (sjv)    iv

lol. I dunno if it's the right iv tho...
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Offline omängum fra'uti

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (please ask your questions here)
« Reply #90 on: December 31, 2009, 03:37:00 pm »
Kaltxì ma smuktu!

I've a question about "have"...

The sentence "I've no time" can be translate by "Oel kehe krrä", right?
That's not really a sentence..  That's two nouns and an adverb.

Oeru krr ke lu.
1-DAT time no be
I do not have time
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Offline Na'viyä Tsamsiyu

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (please ask your questions here)
« Reply #91 on: December 31, 2009, 07:41:05 pm »


Oeru krr ke lu.
1-DAT time no be
I do not have time

So your saying I (DAT, "recieved"), time, not, be.

Why did you use ke instead of kehe, and why is the DAT case used here. Would it maybe be the -yä showing that the time "I" have is not to be? Ya know, instead of saying the time i recvieved is not, using time as a general thing, instead use it as a possesion, because everyone either has time or not.

Oeyä krr ke(kehe)? lu.

BUT.....

IDK if this will work, the Dative case confuses me, correct me please. :D

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« Last Edit: December 31, 2009, 07:47:40 pm by SR Raptor »
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Offline Kaltxì Palulukan!

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (please ask your questions here)
« Reply #92 on: January 01, 2010, 02:52:47 am »
Okay, so I had the crazy idea to start a discussion on PaganSpace (which has an Avatar following) called "Learn just two Na'vi words a day." Unfortunately that forum does not seem to support the "i" with the accent-thing. I am no linguist, so I have no idea what that is, what it is called, or what it sounds like, but wikipedia says it has a soft 'i" sound, like "vision or in." Anyway, my post is below. If anyone can help me help newbies by correcting my pronunciation, or has other useful suggestions for our "just two (easy) words a day" plan, and you feel like commenting, please do. Thanks in advance:

(Post transcript is directly below)

If anyone is more ambitious, I can try to learn with you, but I am hoping a few of us can try to learn two new words a day. Here are two easy ones to start. (If anyone has a better idea, please, please speak up! er . . . in English please)

"Lady, I speak two languages! English, and bad English!"
--Bruce Willis (taxi driver) in The Fifth Element

Okay, my suggested two words for January 1st 2010:

(from the Na'vi dictionary)

kaltxi ("hello" --technically the i has that funny accent over it)
If I am not horribly mistaken, the phonetic equivalent would be close to: "Kalt--ih" with the "i" short, as in "vision" or "in" (not Kalt-ee)

kiyevame ("good-bye," or "see you soon")
Again, If I am not butchering this, the phonetic equivalent would be close to: "kih--yeh-Va-meh"

Used in a sentence: Kaltxi everyone! Welcome to the new discussion! I hope you like it here!

Second word used in a sentence. Well, kiyevame, for now. I'd better stop writing before I really screw things up!

Can anyone help me correct this? Thanks in advance!

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Offline Eywayä mokri

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (please ask your questions here)
« Reply #93 on: January 01, 2010, 03:03:19 am »
Don't forget that kìyevame is also written with the "ì". :)
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Offline Na'viyä Tsamsiyu

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (please ask your questions here)
« Reply #94 on: January 01, 2010, 03:14:46 am »
Not to be a nag, and the two words a day thing is a very good idea but can someone answer my question (2 posts up) rutxe!!

Its been bugging me for some reason.

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Offline Eywayä mokri

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (please ask your questions here)
« Reply #95 on: January 01, 2010, 03:22:11 am »
I don't have so much time to answer yet, but for the ke and kehe, kehe is no, and ke is not. That's why. ;)

But the other question I'll  try to answer later. ;)
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Offline Kaltxì Palulukan!

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (please ask your questions here)
« Reply #96 on: January 01, 2010, 03:51:48 am »
Don't forget that kìyevame is also written with the "ì". :)

Yes yes! Iyraosomething (Thank you!)

The PS forum doesn't seem to support the "ì" thingy. I found something on wikipedia that might help me figure that "ì" thing out though, so that is good news
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Offline Kifkeyit ftiayu

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (please ask your questions here)
« Reply #97 on: January 01, 2010, 05:01:31 am »
So, what's the correct answer? "Oeru krr ke lu." or "Oeyä krr ke lu."?

And why did you use "lu" when there isn't "to be"?

And to finish, the genetive suffix is used for "what is owned", right?

Offline Tawtute oe längu

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (please ask your questions here)
« Reply #98 on: January 01, 2010, 06:56:24 am »
Kaltxì! I want to ask when do I use dative (-ru) and topical (-ìri, -ri)?
They are so confusing to me.  ???

Offline Taronyu

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Re: [For Beginners] FAQ (please ask your questions here)
« Reply #99 on: January 01, 2010, 09:14:17 am »
Oeru krr ke lu.
1-DAT time no be
I do not have time

To answer all of your questions at once, I'm not sure that this is right. In fact, I'm positive it isn't. lu, as we know it, is what is called a copula. That is, it links together a subject with a predicate: in normal terms, it makes the subject of a clause linked to another word. So, "Mary is a runner" - there are two nouns there, and "is" links them into one meaningful unit.

Here, this doesn't really work. lu can't take the dative, as far as I am aware. The dative case indicates the indirect object: that object which is affected by action of the verb to a direct object. For instance, in John gave a book to mary - Mary there is affected, but the book is what is given. Thus, Mary goes into the dative case, as she isn't the direct object of the verb.

You're right, therefore, SR Raptor, but this sort of means "my time", which means, at least in English, my life, my moment of fame.:

Oeyä krr kehe lu.
I-GEN time not-ADV (since it's changing the verb, not the predicate) is.
My time isn't, or My time is not to be. <--- although we don't really have a passive, so the second doesn't really work, I don't think.

The most grammatically correct way to say, outside of your own correct suggestion, "I have no time" would probably have to be"

Ewya-l krr-t oe-ru ke tìng.

I know it is annoying, not having a word for "have", or "receive", for that matter.

@Dustywhite - there are various links in the pronunciation section that talk about how to pronounce things. For the best list of how to pronounce words, I refer you either to the Vocabulary lists] or to [url=http://forum.learnnavi.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=341.0;attach=420]this dictionary.

@Kifkeyit ftiay - yes, that is the genetive suffix's meaning. It's best translated, often, as "of the ___".

@Tawtute oe Längu. First off, funny name. Secondly, I think I've explained the dative here. The Topic marker is explained elsewhere: here are two worksheets that will help you learn it, and some vocabulary. Here's one and here's the other
« Last Edit: January 01, 2010, 10:40:43 am by Taronyu »

 

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