A poem attempt :D

[Tirea Aean]

very nice dude

[kewnya txamew'itan]

ah, one've the things I'm still fuddled with pronounciation wise is how "y's" and "w's" affect sounds, like -ay -ey ect... as well as -aw -ew

so yes back to my poem

oe Eywar yawne lu
fì'u ngay lu
tafral oe lu mawey
ulte oeru yawne lu kifkey

I'm going to go with Fi'u lu ngay for the second line

Good now ? if you can think of a different way to put the first two lines to rhyme then go ahead but I think this is okay !

ngay lu fì'u would keep the rhyme whilst not just using the same word to rhyme it with.

[tsrräfkxätu]

Frommer smacked me down for calling that word order "passive".  It can be but not necessarily.  Also, the Frommer order for "X loves Y" is "Y yawne lu Xr".

I wasn't sure what to call it in because of that. It's certainly more passive than SOV but, as he says, isn't entirely passive, that's why I went with it implying passivity or being pseudo-passive although I still think those might be too strong.

I don't think "passive word order" makes much sense with respect to unbound languages, particularly if (as in Na'vi) the positions are topically relevant. English speakers might feel that way because of how the normal SVO structure is turned around in passive constructions, but when there's no syntactically determined active or passive configuration, this notion isn't very meaningful.

Just to say something on topic, here's my rendition of the poem (very nice btw.) I used kemeoauniaea's words mostly, just changed them around a bit to get 7 syllables per line. The couplets also came out a bit more subtle than the lu-lu rhymes, I think.

Yawne oe lu Eywar, (to-Eywa I am beloved)
'Efu oel, ngay lu tsaw, (feel I [that] true is that-thing)
Tafral lu oe mawey, (therefore am I calm)
Ulte yawne lu kifkey. (and beloved is the-world [to-me])

[nicktheh]

I think I enjoy this one the most so far :

Yawne oe lu Eywar, (to-Eywa I am beloved)
'Efu oel, ngay lu tsaw, (feel I [that] true is that-thing)
Tafral lu oe mawey, (therefore am I calm)
Ulte yawne lu kifkey. (and beloved is the-world [to-me])

just because of the variation in rhyme scheme

irayo tsrrafxatu

[kewnya txamew'itan]

Frommer smacked me down for calling that word order "passive".  It can be but not necessarily.  Also, the Frommer order for "X loves Y" is "Y yawne lu Xr".

I wasn't sure what to call it in because of that. It's certainly more passive than SOV but, as he says, isn't entirely passive, that's why I went with it implying passivity or being pseudo-passive although I still think those might be too strong.

I don't think "passive word order" makes much sense with respect to unbound languages, particularly if (as in Na'vi) the positions are topically relevant. English speakers might feel that way because of how the normal SVO structure is turned around in passive constructions, but when there's no syntactically determined active or passive configuration, this notion isn't very meaningful.

Just to say something on topic, here's my rendition of the poem (very nice btw.) I used kemeoauniaea's words mostly, just changed them around a bit to get 7 syllables per line. The couplets also came out a bit more subtle than the lu-lu rhymes, I think.

Yawne oe lu Eywar, (to-Eywa I am beloved)
'Efu oel, ngay lu tsaw, (feel I [that] true is that-thing)
Tafral lu oe mawey, (therefore am I calm)
Ulte yawne lu kifkey. (and beloved is the-world [to-me])

The word order is free but different orders do change the meaning. The focus is on the first noun (there's an email from Frommer somewhere) whilst the final position can be used for a lesser emphasis.

Because of where the focus is, if the object goes there, that is focussing on the object and so is pseudo-passive.

And the phrase x loves y is "y yawne lu xru" so, depending on how strict this is (and it could be very), you might not be allowed to say yawne lu kifkey.

[tsrräfkxätu]

Frommer smacked me down for calling that word order "passive".  It can be but not necessarily.  Also, the Frommer order for "X loves Y" is "Y yawne lu Xr".

I wasn't sure what to call it in because of that. It's certainly more passive than SOV but, as he says, isn't entirely passive, that's why I went with it implying passivity or being pseudo-passive although I still think those might be too strong.

I don't think "passive word order" makes much sense with respect to unbound languages, particularly if (as in Na'vi) the positions are topically relevant. English speakers might feel that way because of how the normal SVO structure is turned around in passive constructions, but when there's no syntactically determined active or passive configuration, this notion isn't very meaningful.

Just to say something on topic, here's my rendition of the poem (very nice btw.) I used kemeoauniaea's words mostly, just changed them around a bit to get 7 syllables per line. The couplets also came out a bit more subtle than the lu-lu rhymes, I think.

Yawne oe lu Eywar, (to-Eywa I am beloved)
'Efu oel, ngay lu tsaw, (feel I [that] true is that-thing)
Tafral lu oe mawey, (therefore am I calm)
Ulte yawne lu kifkey. (and beloved is the-world [to-me])

The word order is free but different orders do change the meaning. The focus is on the first noun (there's an email from Frommer somewhere) whilst the final position can be used for a lesser emphasis.

Because of where the focus is, if the object goes there, that is focussing on the object and so is pseudo-passive.

And the phrase x loves y is "y yawne lu xru" so, depending on how strict this is (and it could be very), you might not be allowed to say yawne lu kifkey.

I agree that it would be very nice to know how this word order thing works exactly, as it has been bugging me since day one. In Hungarian – which happens to allow all six permutations of S, V, and O, as well as assign extra semantics based on the position a word occupies – a sentence headed by an O is not in the least passive-like.

A macska issza a tejet._(SVO-active)
The cat_NOM drink-3SG the milk-ACC.
The cat [and not the little girl] is drinking the milk.

A tejet issza a macska._(OVS-active)
The milk-ACC drink-3SG the cat_NOM.
The cat is drinking the milk [and not the battery acid.]

(The second position is also important with respect to the exact meaning of the sentence, not just the first, so all six versions are a bit different, but that's beside the point.) The two sentences are equally active, and the nuances of meaning only become relevant if the sentence is expanded (even implicitly, e.g. when answering a question), otherwise they are completely interchangeable.

Passive is very restricted and seldom used in Hungarian, so the two sentences given below would sound weird, but even so, you can move the pieces around as you see fit.

A macska által van elfogyasztva a tej_{(SVO-passive)}.
The cat_NOM by is-3SG consumed the milk_NOM.
The milk has been consumed by the cat [and not by the undead astronaut.]

A tej van elfogyasztva a macska által_{(OVS-passive)}.
The milk_NOM is-3SG consumed the cat_NOM by.
The milk [and not the filing cabinet] has been consumed by the cat.

Obviously, I'm not arguing that Na'vi works anything like this, just trying to show that English patterns might not always be directly applicable to Na'vi. Which is a good thing, in my opinion, because who would want to learn Blue Tongue if it were but an alternative sounding English, right?

Wrrpa-kìngìri livu oeru txoa ngeyä, ma nicktheh, ulte prrte' lu oer fwa ngaru mowan lu oeyä fya'o tìrolä!

[omängum fra'uti]

The truth is Frommer hasn't fully thought out what it means in different orders.  All we have is the vagueness that OSV can be vaguely passive like, and the past position can be used to give a little extra kick.  But also that is not a hard and fast rule.

[kewnya txamew'itan]

The truth is Frommer hasn't fully thought out what it means in different orders.  All we have is the vagueness that OSV can be vaguely passive like, and the past position can be used to give a little extra kick.  But also that is not a hard and fast rule.

This is probably what we're going to have to leave it as for now.

I'd love to have a set of rules about what each of the word orders means, but for now we'll have to settle I think.

[Kì'eyawn]

Let me just say that the most salient experience i've gotten out of the Na'vi-Learning community is that the more i learn, the less i know.  I knew, of course, that there was a huge degree of variety in human languages, but... i was completely lacking in imagination as to what kind of variety was actually out there.  You guys make me feel smart 

And now back to our regularly scheduled program.

[omängum fra'uti]

Half a year ago (Wow, it's been that long already?  6 months ago today I joined this forum...) I had no clue about anything outside English.  I've had to take a self taught crash course in linguistics to understand half the stuff that goes on.