A poem attempt :D

Started by nicktheh, May 16, 2010, 09:54:44 PM

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nicktheh

SO, here it goes, I hope this gets fixed up, and done correctly by all you awesome people, because I really want this to work.
just a two line, sort've thanks to eywa thing :D (ignore the brackets if you wish, they're my own pronounciation XD)

here it is; try and fix the grammer and such please

Eywa oe yawne  (ehwa oe yawnEH) Gaia loves me
oe fìomum ngay zene (oeh feh-ohmoom ngEH zehneh) i know this must be true.
oe tafral lu mawey(taaa-fthral, oeh loo mahwey) Therefore I am calm
ulte oe tìyawn kifkey (ullteh oeh tih-yeeohwn keefkay) and I love the world


Rearrange it and edit it any way you like so that it makes grammatical sense, as long as the meaning is the same-ish, and the last two words of each of the two lines still rhyme :D

Tirea Aean

#1
Quote from: nicktheh on May 16, 2010, 09:54:44 PM
SO, here it goes, I hope this gets fixed up, and done correctly by all you awesome people, because I really want this to work.
just a two line, sort've thanks to eywa thing :D (ignore the brackets if you wish, they're my own pronounciation XD)

here it is; try and fix the grammer and such please

Eywa oe yawne  (ehwa oe yawnEH) Gaia loves me
oe fìomum ngay zene (oeh feh-ohmoom ngEH zehneh) i know this must be true.
oe tafral lu mawey(taaa-fthral, oeh loo mahwey) Therefore I am calm
ulte oe tìyawn kifkey (ullteh oeh tih-yeeohwn keefkay) and I love the world


Rearrange it and edit it any way you like so that it makes grammatical sense, as long as the meaning is the same-ish, and the last two words of each of the two lines still rhyme :D
Very nice! I like it! Just a few suggestions... :D
the word yawne is a adj and tìyawn is a noun. we don't have a verb to love in Na'vi we say more like I am beloved to Eywa and the world is beloved to me. And fì is for nouns not verbs. Great try and nice poem. :-) not 100% in agreeance with your pronunciation brackets, but stuff like that cannot be written in a perfectly universal way, so I won't try to "correct" it. here goes:

Eywa-r(u) oe lu yawne
oel omum fì'ut livu ngay zene
oe tafral lu mawey
ulte oeru yawne lu kifkey

To Eywa I am beloved
I know this must be true
I therefore am calm
and to me beloved is the world.

Kì'eyawn

Edit: Ooh, i got ninja'd.  Here's my original post, anyway.  Not very different from Tirea Aean's suggestions.

Kaltxì, ma tsmuk.

We have no verb "to love"; at present, we have the noun "love" (tìyawn), the adjective "beloved" (yawne), and the noun "(be)loved one" (yawnetu or yawntu).  Here's what i came up with:

Eywar oe lu yawne
Eywa-r oe lu yawne
Eywa-DAT i COP beloved
Eywa loves me (lit., "to Eywa i am beloved)

Oel omum futa livu ngay fì'u zivene
Oe-l omum fì'u-t a l<iv>u ngay fì'u z<iv>ene
i-ERG know this.thing SBRD COP<SBJ> true this.thing must<SBJ>
I know that this must be true (i feel like it's a little awkward, but i wanted to maintain the rhyme)

Tafral oe lu mawey
Therefore i COP calm (This seemed fine; i just think tafral sounds better at the start of the phrase)

Ulte oeru yawne lu kifkey
And i-DAT beloved COP world
And i love the world (lit., "And the world is beloved to me").

Do you approve, ma tsmuk?
eo Eywa oe 'ia

Fra'uri tìyawnur oe täpivìng nìwotx...

kewnya txamew'itan

First line tigermind and tirea got right (apart from the fact that the word order you've used implies passivity whereas the sentence is active), the second, I have a few quibbles with.

Ma tirea, you missed out the a so it should be futa not fì'ut.

You both put a zene in, this is very English, really the must here is an inferential (John isn't here, he must be at the shops) so you should use <ats> in l<iv>u to get l<iv><ats>u.

Tigermind's third line is correct, tafral should probably be at the start of the sentence.

Again, your last lines both have the pseudo-passive word order, remember the standard phrase for {x} loves {y} is {y} {x}ur yawne lu.

so what it should be is:

oe Eywar(u) lu yawne
oel omum futa ngay livatsu
tafral oe mawey lu
ulte kifkey oeru yawne lu
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learnnavi's

omängum fra'uti

Frommer smacked me down for calling that word order "passive".  It can be but not necessarily.  Also, the Frommer order for "X loves Y" is "Y yawne lu Xr".
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

nicktheh

ahhhh x]
that's a lot of different versions :P ohmy

kewnya txamew'itan

Quote from: omängum fra'uti on May 17, 2010, 02:39:36 AM
Frommer smacked me down for calling that word order "passive".  It can be but not necessarily.  Also, the Frommer order for "X loves Y" is "Y yawne lu Xr".

I wasn't sure what to call it in because of that. It's certainly more passive than SOV but, as he says, isn't entirely passive, that's why I went with it implying passivity or being pseudo-passive although I still think those might be too strong.
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Kì'eyawn

Kaltxì ma kemeoauniaea,
The reason i used those word orders and used the zene was to try and maintain the rhyme that nicktheh had started with.  But you're right on all counts.
eo Eywa oe 'ia

Fra'uri tìyawnur oe täpivìng nìwotx...

Tirea Aean

idk about the <iv> in zene, and i am not a massive fan of translating <ats> as "must". it is more of a "might/possibly." a d also, he said "I KNOW that this must be true." not "I THINK this might be true." <t'EmO>

Kì'eyawn

Hey, why don't we simplify the whole issue by changing the second line to

Ngay livu fì'u zene
True COP<SBJ> this.thing must
This must be true

Makes the line shorter, makes the grammar less sketchy, and hey, it still rhymes.  Kefyak?
eo Eywa oe 'ia

Fra'uri tìyawnur oe täpivìng nìwotx...

kewnya txamew'itan

Quote from: Tirea Aean on May 17, 2010, 08:37:02 AM
idk about the <iv> in zene, and i am not a massive fan of translating <ats> as "must". it is more of a "might/possibly." a d also, he said "I KNOW that this must be true." not "I THINK this might be true." <t'EmO>

I know that <ats> isn't used like must but, unfortunately English does use must like <ats>  ;)

The must here is being used inferentially although, as you say, the I know that would seem to indicate evidentiality rather than an inference, I think in this case, it might be best to drop the <ats> because, as you say that would produce strange ideas about whether or not he knows for certain, on the other hand, I still think we shouldn't have zene because the must isn't being used like zene.

Quote from: tigermind on May 17, 2010, 08:44:48 AM
Hey, why don't we simplify the whole issue by changing the second line to

Ngay livu fì'u zene
True COP<SBJ> this.thing must
This must be true

Makes the line shorter, makes the grammar less sketchy, and hey, it still rhymes.  Kefyak?

I'm not a big fan of that either though, that implies that fì'u is incapable of being anything other than true whereas what the OP is really trying to say in that line is something along the lines of "I believe strongly that this is true" (but, in English and possibly other languages the strength of the belief is exaggerated into knowledge).

So we could not exaggerate and just say: oel spaw futa ngay livu (which also keeps the same number of syllables) or fì'u ngay l<ats>u.

Or we can exaggerate it as: fì'u ngay lu.

All the other ways are translating a potentially idiomatic exaggeration.
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nicktheh

oel spaw futa ngay livu

gets a thumbs up in my book, but then it won't rhyme?
what should the final thing look like?

this:

Eywar oe lu yawne
fì'u lu ngay?? or (Oel omum futa livu ngay fì'u zivene?)
oe tafral lu mawey
ulte oeru yawne lu kifkey


kewnya txamew'itan

oe Eywar yawne lu
oel spaw futa ngay livu / fì'u ngay lu
tafral oe mawey lu
ulte kifkey oeru yawne lu

Take your pick of the second line.

(granted it's cheating to rhyme lu with lu every time but it keeps the rhyme and is correct).
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nicktheh

Isn't there any way to put yawne, ngay, mawey, and kifkey at the end, and still have it make grammatical sense XD?

kewnya txamew'itan

you can do, but then you abandon any hope of a rhyme scheme.

You could go with:

oe Eywar lu yawne
oel spaw futa livu ngay / fì'u lu ngay
tafral oe lu mawey
ulte oeru yawne lu kifkey

but theyn you have one rhyming couplet at the end and first two lines with no scheme, given your comment about the rhyme earlier I thought that was of importance to you.
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nicktheh

yawne and ngay rhyme do they not :S?

Tirea Aean

Not at all.

Ngay rhymes with high, guy, lie, sky

yawne ends with a more eh sound like let set bet, but without the t.

kewnya txamew'itan

Quote from: nicktheh on May 17, 2010, 02:12:24 PM
yawne and ngay rhyme do they not :S?

Very much no, as tirea has said.

You might want to look at these files for some sample pronunciation.
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nicktheh

ah, one've the things I'm still fuddled with pronounciation wise is how "y's" and "w's" affect sounds, like -ay -ey ect... as well as -aw -ew

so yes :P back to my poem :P

oe Eywar yawne lu
fì'u ngay lu
tafral oe lu mawey
ulte oeru yawne lu kifkey

I'm going to go with Fi'u lu ngay for the second line

Good now :)? if you can think of a different way to put the first two lines to rhyme then go ahead :P but I think this is okay !

nicktheh

actually, the syllables fit better in this one.