Author Topic: About how many words are there currently in the Na'vi language?  (Read 4088 times)

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Offline Linguaphile

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About how many words are there currently in the Na'vi language?
« on: September 27, 2011, 01:38:00 pm »
I didn't know where else I could put this, so I put it here. 8) I'm doing a presentation at the Language and Linguistics Student Conference (at the behest of my linguistics professor, Dr. Amy Carrell) called "Language in the Cloud: How Social Networking Can Save Endangered Languages," and I'm using the community as an example of how to bring people together in the interests of furthering or preserving a given language (natural or constructed). I'm just doing a quick fact sheet about Na'vi for my presentation, and I was wondering, since I can't seem to find a current number: how many words currently make up the Na'vi language?

Offline Blue Elf

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Re: About how many words are there currently in the Na'vi language?
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2011, 02:08:52 pm »
Interesting question. According to text files from vrrtepcli we have 1444 words, but probably new batch of words from last post from Naviteri is not yet included. Exact number probably know Markì, as he is maintainer of the word database.
If you do not need exact number, it is safe to say roughly 1450 words (some of them are spoken contractions as faylì'ut a -> fayluta)
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Offline Kamean

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Re: About how many words are there currently in the Na'vi language?
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2011, 02:12:56 pm »
Pure words approximately 1500. But if we consider their variants ( taron - tirmareion ) I think will be around 4000 or more. But I'm not sure.
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Offline Tsmuktengan

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Re: About how many words are there currently in the Na'vi language?
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2011, 07:42:56 am »
There are also quite a lot of words considered to be 'illegal' and awaiting validation from Karyu Pawl.

4000 seems quite a lot, but looks like realistic when we see how it is easy to transform some words according to the grammar rules.


Offline Carborundum

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Re: About how many words are there currently in the Na'vi language?
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2011, 08:13:44 am »
Pure words approximately 1500. But if we consider their variants ( taron - tirmareion ) I think will be around 4000 or more. But I'm not sure.

Not quite. :D

Let's assume somewhere around 20% of all words are verbs (~300). Each verb can take up to three infixes. By my count, there are 3 pre-first infixes, 24 1:st position infixes and 4 2:nd position infixes. There are then 300*4*25*5=150000 possible verb variants.

And then we have the nouns (let's assume 30% of words, ~450). 6 cases, 42 adpostions, 4 numbers ≈ 90000.

So, counting all possible word shapes, we're looking at an order of magnitude of 10^5 words.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2011, 08:17:20 am by Carborundum »
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Offline Plumps

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Re: About how many words are there currently in the Na'vi language?
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2011, 10:30:52 am »
3 pre-first infixes? ???

Be that as it may, I think if we wanted to count how many words there are we should concentrate on root words and those that gained a unique meaning by combination. Meaning, rey and pay and reypay are all lexical items that should be counted.
All words that Frommer said needed to be listed in the dictionary (- words, adjectives in -nga’)

On the otherhand, I wouldn’t count all possible adverbs that are derived from adjectives unless they form a special form (c.f. nìk’ong or nìksman).
Adjectives in nì- that stem from verbs or other wordgroups should be counted.

With this in mind we arrive at about 1.300 ~ 1.500 words, I think.

But I’m not good with numbers. I take this from the count in dict-navi, the dictionary and my private vocabulary list in jMem…

Offline Carborundum

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Re: About how many words are there currently in the Na'vi language?
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2011, 10:37:08 am »
3 pre-first infixes? ???

Äp, eyk and äpeyk.

Quote
Be that as it may, I think if we wanted to count how many words there are we should concentrate on root words and those that gained a unique meaning by combination. Meaning, rey and pay and reypay are all lexical items that should be counted.
All words that Frommer said needed to be listed in the dictionary (- words, adjectives in -nga’)

On the otherhand, I wouldn’t count all possible adverbs that are derived from adjectives unless they form a special form (c.f. nìk’ong or nìksman).
Adjectives in nì- that stem from verbs or other wordgroups should be counted.

With this in mind we arrive at about 1.300 ~ 1.500 words, I think.

But I’m not good with numbers. I take this from the count in dict-navi, the dictionary and my private vocabulary list in jMem…


I agree. Calculating every possible word shape would be an interesting exercise in combinatorics though. ;D
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Offline Ikran Ahiyìk

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Re: About how many words are there currently in the Na'vi language?
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2011, 10:38:24 am »
But it is a bit meaningless to count all the possible verb variants since most of them are seldom used.
Think of the 2 or 3 infixes combination, they occupied most of the 150,000...

I am writing the 'Hangman' game for Na'vi, as an extension of a recent homework..
For the number of pure words, it will be counted in a few days. ;)
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Offline Plumps

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Re: About how many words are there currently in the Na'vi language?
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2011, 10:53:19 am »
3 pre-first infixes? ???

Äp, eyk and äpeyk.

Ah, I see… I thought as much… You see, I don’t count ‹äpeyk› as an infix on its own… ;D but perhaps that’s not so bad after all :-\

Offline Carborundum

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Re: About how many words are there currently in the Na'vi language?
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2011, 10:59:55 am »
3 pre-first infixes? ???

Äp, eyk and äpeyk.

Ah, I see… I thought as much… You see, I don’t count ‹äpeyk› as an infix on its own… ;D but perhaps that’s not so bad after all :-\

I see what you mean, but for the purposes of the calculation, it was easier to consider every possible combination of infixes as its own infix. Hence the 24 first position infixes. :P
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Offline Kamean

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Re: About how many words are there currently in the Na'vi language?
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2011, 01:55:33 pm »
But it is a bit meaningless to count all the possible verb variants since most of them are seldom used.
Think of the 2 or 3 infixes combination, they occupied most of the 150,000...
So much! :o :)
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Offline Irtaviš Ačankif

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Re: About how many words are there currently in the Na'vi language?
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2011, 04:58:45 pm »
There are a lot  ;D

Seriously though, you can make lots of words just from a simple word like si:

si
sivi
siveiyi
sivängi
sami
sameiyi
samängi

and so on and so forth. BTW can somebody give me THE longest form of si possible? That would be cool...
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Offline Kamean

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Re: About how many words are there currently in the Na'vi language?
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2011, 05:15:19 pm »
There are a lot  ;D

Seriously though, you can make lots of words just from a simple word like si:

si
sivi
siveiyi
sivängi
sami
sameiyi
samängi

and so on and so forth. BTW can somebody give me THE longest form of si possible? That would be cool...
säpivi
säpiveiyi
säpivängi
säpami
säpameiyi
säpamängi
seyki
seykivi
seykiveiyi
seykivängi
seykami
seykameiyi
seykamängi

And much more, such säpìyevereiyi. ;D
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Offline Irtaviš Ačankif

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Re: About how many words are there currently in the Na'vi language?
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2011, 06:53:04 pm »
The problem "conjugate this verb" in my Latin textbook suddenly seems SOO easy!

BTW how many pages will a full conjugation of "si" take?
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Offline Sireayä mokri

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Re: About how many words are there currently in the Na'vi language?
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2011, 09:01:17 am »
And much more, such säpìyevereiyi. ;D

<ìyev> and <er> are both first position infixes, so they can't be used together.
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Offline Ekirä

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Re: About how many words are there currently in the Na'vi language?
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2011, 09:57:06 am »
What about säpeykìyevängi? That's the longest version I can think of. :P

Offline Kamean

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Re: About how many words are there currently in the Na'vi language?
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2011, 10:38:08 am »
What about säpeykìyevängi? That's the longest version I can think of. :P
I like it. ;) ;D
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Offline Tsmuktengan

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Re: About how many words are there currently in the Na'vi language?
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2011, 01:40:46 pm »
What about säpeykìyevängi? That's the longest version I can think of. :P

But... what does that mean exactly? Beginner inside...


Offline Blue Elf

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Re: About how many words are there currently in the Na'vi language?
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2011, 01:58:00 pm »
This word itself has no meaning, as si is not used on its own; it is connected with noun to turn it into verb, like kem si, pamrel si etc.
So if we use pamrel s<äp><eyk><ìyev><äng>i:
- äp - reflexive infix in position 0
- eyk - causative infix in position 0. Only these two infixes can be used together; in other positions onfly one infix can be placed
äpeyk infix means make myself /cause myself (to do what verb says)
- ìyev - first position combined infix of future (ay/ìy) + subjunctive (used in some constructions, also can describe wish. Depends on context)
- äng - second position infix, express bad mood of the speaker

So pamrel säpeykìyevängi means something like "to cause myself write something in short future and speaker is not happy about it"
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
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Re: About how many words are there currently in the Na'vi language?
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2011, 02:06:09 pm »
What about säpeykìyevängi? That's the longest version I can think of. :P

But... what does that mean exactly? Beginner inside...

Well, since si can't stand alone it doesn't *mean* anything, but say it was part of ultxa si.

Ultxa s<äpeyk><ìyev><äng>i

Will cause myself to meet and I'm unhappy about it (best I can write it in English, sorry :P)

(oh, what Blue Elf wrote makes a lot more sense ;D)

 

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