About how many words are there currently in the Na'vi language?

Started by Linguaphile, September 27, 2011, 01:38:00 PM

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Linguaphile

I didn't know where else I could put this, so I put it here. 8) I'm doing a presentation at the Language and Linguistics Student Conference (at the behest of my linguistics professor, Dr. Amy Carrell) called "Language in the Cloud: How Social Networking Can Save Endangered Languages," and I'm using the community as an example of how to bring people together in the interests of furthering or preserving a given language (natural or constructed). I'm just doing a quick fact sheet about Na'vi for my presentation, and I was wondering, since I can't seem to find a current number: how many words currently make up the Na'vi language?

Blue Elf

Interesting question. According to text files from vrrtepcli we have 1444 words, but probably new batch of words from last post from Naviteri is not yet included. Exact number probably know Markì, as he is maintainer of the word database.
If you do not need exact number, it is safe to say roughly 1450 words (some of them are spoken contractions as faylì'ut a -> fayluta)
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Kamean

Pure words approximately 1500. But if we consider their variants ( taron - tirmareion ) I think will be around 4000 or more. But I'm not sure.
Tse'a ngal ke'ut a krr fra'uti kame.


Tsmuktengan

There are also quite a lot of words considered to be 'illegal' and awaiting validation from Karyu Pawl.

4000 seems quite a lot, but looks like realistic when we see how it is easy to transform some words according to the grammar rules.


Carborundum

Quote from: Kamean on September 27, 2011, 02:12:56 PM
Pure words approximately 1500. But if we consider their variants ( taron - tirmareion ) I think will be around 4000 or more. But I'm not sure.

Not quite. :D

Let's assume somewhere around 20% of all words are verbs (~300). Each verb can take up to three infixes. By my count, there are 3 pre-first infixes, 24 1:st position infixes and 4 2:nd position infixes. There are then 300*4*25*5=150000 possible verb variants.

And then we have the nouns (let's assume 30% of words, ~450). 6 cases, 42 adpostions, 4 numbers ≈ 90000.

So, counting all possible word shapes, we're looking at an order of magnitude of 10^5 words.
We learn from our mistakes only if we are made aware of them.
If I make a mistake, please bring it to my attention for karma.

Plumps

3 pre-first infixes? ???

Be that as it may, I think if we wanted to count how many words there are we should concentrate on root words and those that gained a unique meaning by combination. Meaning, rey and pay and reypay are all lexical items that should be counted.
All words that Frommer said needed to be listed in the dictionary (- words, adjectives in -nga')

On the otherhand, I wouldn't count all possible adverbs that are derived from adjectives unless they form a special form (c.f. nìk'ong or nìksman).
Adjectives in nì- that stem from verbs or other wordgroups should be counted.

With this in mind we arrive at about 1.300 ~ 1.500 words, I think.

But I'm not good with numbers. I take this from the count in dict-navi, the dictionary and my private vocabulary list in jMem...

Carborundum

Quote from: Plumps on September 29, 2011, 10:30:52 AM
3 pre-first infixes? ???

Äp, eyk and äpeyk.

QuoteBe that as it may, I think if we wanted to count how many words there are we should concentrate on root words and those that gained a unique meaning by combination. Meaning, rey and pay and reypay are all lexical items that should be counted.
All words that Frommer said needed to be listed in the dictionary (- words, adjectives in -nga')

On the otherhand, I wouldn't count all possible adverbs that are derived from adjectives unless they form a special form (c.f. nìk'ong or nìksman).
Adjectives in nì- that stem from verbs or other wordgroups should be counted.

With this in mind we arrive at about 1.300 ~ 1.500 words, I think.

But I'm not good with numbers. I take this from the count in dict-navi, the dictionary and my private vocabulary list in jMem...


I agree. Calculating every possible word shape would be an interesting exercise in combinatorics though. ;D
We learn from our mistakes only if we are made aware of them.
If I make a mistake, please bring it to my attention for karma.

Ikran Ahiyìk

But it is a bit meaningless to count all the possible verb variants since most of them are seldom used.
Think of the 2 or 3 infixes combination, they occupied most of the 150,000...

I am writing the 'Hangman' game for Na'vi, as an extension of a recent homework..
For the number of pure words, it will be counted in a few days. ;)
Plltxe nìhiyìk na ikran... oe fmeri sìltsan nì'ul slivu, ngaytxoa...


See the new version with fingerings!
Avatar credits to O-l-i-v-i.

Plumps

Quote from: Carborundum on September 29, 2011, 10:37:08 AM
Quote from: Plumps on September 29, 2011, 10:30:52 AM
3 pre-first infixes? ???

Äp, eyk and äpeyk.

Ah, I see... I thought as much... You see, I don't count ‹äpeyk› as an infix on its own... ;D but perhaps that's not so bad after all :-\

Carborundum

Quote from: Plumps on September 29, 2011, 10:53:19 AM
Quote from: Carborundum on September 29, 2011, 10:37:08 AM
Quote from: Plumps on September 29, 2011, 10:30:52 AM
3 pre-first infixes? ???

Äp, eyk and äpeyk.

Ah, I see... I thought as much... You see, I don't count ‹äpeyk› as an infix on its own... ;D but perhaps that's not so bad after all :-\

I see what you mean, but for the purposes of the calculation, it was easier to consider every possible combination of infixes as its own infix. Hence the 24 first position infixes. :P
We learn from our mistakes only if we are made aware of them.
If I make a mistake, please bring it to my attention for karma.

Kamean

Quote from: Ikran Ahiyìk on September 29, 2011, 10:38:24 AM
But it is a bit meaningless to count all the possible verb variants since most of them are seldom used.
Think of the 2 or 3 infixes combination, they occupied most of the 150,000...
So much! :o :)
Tse'a ngal ke'ut a krr fra'uti kame.


Irtaviš Ačankif

There are a lot  ;D

Seriously though, you can make lots of words just from a simple word like si:

si
sivi
siveiyi
sivängi
sami
sameiyi
samängi

and so on and so forth. BTW can somebody give me THE longest form of si possible? That would be cool...
Previously Ithisa Kīranem, Uniltìrantokx te Skxawng.

Name from my Sakaš conlang, from Sakasul Ältäbisäl Acarankïp

"First name" is Ačankif, not Eltabiš! In Na'vi, Atsankip.

Kamean

Quote from: Uniltìrantokx te Skxawng on September 29, 2011, 04:58:45 PM
There are a lot  ;D

Seriously though, you can make lots of words just from a simple word like si:

si
sivi
siveiyi
sivängi
sami
sameiyi
samängi

and so on and so forth. BTW can somebody give me THE longest form of si possible? That would be cool...
säpivi
säpiveiyi
säpivängi
säpami
säpameiyi
säpamängi
seyki
seykivi
seykiveiyi
seykivängi
seykami
seykameiyi
seykamängi

And much more, such säpìyevereiyi. ;D
Tse'a ngal ke'ut a krr fra'uti kame.


Irtaviš Ačankif

The problem "conjugate this verb" in my Latin textbook suddenly seems SOO easy!

BTW how many pages will a full conjugation of "si" take?
Previously Ithisa Kīranem, Uniltìrantokx te Skxawng.

Name from my Sakaš conlang, from Sakasul Ältäbisäl Acarankïp

"First name" is Ačankif, not Eltabiš! In Na'vi, Atsankip.

Sireayä mokri

Quote from: Kamean on September 29, 2011, 05:15:19 PM
And much more, such säpìyevereiyi. ;D

<ìyev> and <er> are both first position infixes, so they can't be used together.
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Ekirä

What about säpeykìyevängi? That's the longest version I can think of. :P

Kamean

Tse'a ngal ke'ut a krr fra'uti kame.


Tsmuktengan

Quote from: Ekirä on September 30, 2011, 09:57:06 AM
What about säpeykìyevängi? That's the longest version I can think of. :P

But... what does that mean exactly? Beginner inside...


Blue Elf

This word itself has no meaning, as si is not used on its own; it is connected with noun to turn it into verb, like kem si, pamrel si etc.
So if we use pamrel s<äp><eyk><ìyev><äng>i:
- äp - reflexive infix in position 0
- eyk - causative infix in position 0. Only these two infixes can be used together; in other positions onfly one infix can be placed
äpeyk infix means make myself /cause myself (to do what verb says)
- ìyev - first position combined infix of future (ay/ìy) + subjunctive (used in some constructions, also can describe wish. Depends on context)
- äng - second position infix, express bad mood of the speaker

So pamrel säpeykìyevängi means something like "to cause myself write something in short future and speaker is not happy about it"
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Ekirä

Quote from: Tsmuktengan on September 30, 2011, 01:40:46 PM
Quote from: Ekirä on September 30, 2011, 09:57:06 AM
What about säpeykìyevängi? That's the longest version I can think of. :P

But... what does that mean exactly? Beginner inside...

Well, since si can't stand alone it doesn't *mean* anything, but say it was part of ultxa si.

Ultxa s<äpeyk><ìyev><äng>i

Will cause myself to meet and I'm unhappy about it (best I can write it in English, sorry :P)

(oh, what Blue Elf wrote makes a lot more sense ;D)