Author Topic: Na'vi Journal Project  (Read 2134 times)

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Offline Kyle Kepone

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Na'vi Journal Project
« on: June 10, 2010, 05:12:18 am »
I decided to start journaling in Na'vi. Here's my rudimentary first entry:

Quote
Thursday - Trrmrrve

Yesterday, I went and looked for a job. Searching was difficult. I did not find any work. I will search tomorrow also.

Trram, oel kolä ulte fwolew tìkangkem. Txa' fwerew lolu. Oel rolä'ä run kepxay tìkangkem. Oe ayfwew/fwayew trray kop.

I don't know if this is correct, but it was fun! It's hard to think in a limited, new vocabulary; I definitely took our language and its ability to describe literally everything around us for granted.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2010, 01:02:21 pm by Fmawntu Anusume »
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Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: Am I doin' it right?
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2010, 05:28:35 am »
A few things.

"I went and ___" is an idiom, these are phrases that either have no actual meaning (like this one) or their actual meaning differs from the literal one, an obvious example being the Spanish idiom equivalent to "something's up" (which is also an idiom) which translates literally as "I know you cod even though you are disguised" so the "kolä ulte" should be dropped.

Also, fwew translates as searching for something so tìkangkem is a direct object which means it takes the accusative case using the suffix -it (you correctly used the ergative on oe but the ergative only appears on transitive verbs which, broadly speaking, are those with a direct object).

We don't think txa' can be used like this so for now I'd substitute [difficult] in there leaving it untranslated.

<er> roughly translates as "is verbing" so what you've said is (with an implied oe) "I am searching was difficult", what you actually want is a gerund, which is a noun formed in English with the suffix -ing, not to be confused with the participle which is an adjective formed in English with the suffix -ing. A gerund is formed with the infix <us> and the prefix tì- so you want to say tìfwusew [difficult] lu (the perfective aspect is assumed from the first sentence, you can state it again if you like but it's unnecessary).

rä'ä isn't a verb so can't take verb infixes, also, you should notice it is only for negative imperatives, other negations are formed with ke.

Again the perfective can be inferred from earlier but if you want to restate it it goes in run.

Again tìkangkem is the object, it needs to take the accusative.

I didn't find any work would be translated in na'vi as "I didn't find no work" (the double negative is required) so you'd use the adjective kea before tìkangkem not your construction.

Will search is fwayew, in single syllable verbs all infixes go in that one syllable. Also, this sentence is a statement of determination I think and so could be written "I shall look again tomorrow" or "I am determined that I shall look again tomorrow" without changing the meaning so <asy> might convey this a bit better than <ay>.

Lastly I'd use nìmun instead of kop.

So a corrected version would be:

trram oel fwolew tìkangkemit. tìfwusew [difficult] l(<ol>)u. oel ke r(<ol>)un kea tìkangkemit. oe fwa(s)yew trray nìmun.


On a stylistic note, your word order is almost always the same as the English (you only changed in the txa' fwerew lolu sentence), whilst not wrong it seems odd, in general SOV seems to be common with the English order (SVO) being used for a slight emphasis on the object, there are four other combinations but we don't know how they all fit together although OSV seems to put more emphasis on the object than subject in a similar (but not the same) way to passive constructions in English (like "the cake was eaten by me").
« Last Edit: June 10, 2010, 05:34:27 am by kemeoauniaea »
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Offline Kì'eyawn

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Re: Am I doin' it right?
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2010, 10:25:46 am »
Kaltxì ma Fmawntu Anusume.  Kemeoauniaea's advice is excellent.  The only thing i would add is that, while it is difficult to talk about the world with a limited vocabulary, it does give you the opportunity to flex your creative muscles a bit.  So, while we don't have a way to say something was difficult yet, you can say something ke lu ftue.  Trying to find a different way to say what you mean, or to describe something you don't have a word for, is good mental exercise—especially for a budding journalist, who above all people needs to be able to make artful use of language ;)

In any case, i think journaling in Na'vi is a great idea.  And i like that you're sharing your entries, since the real "test" is making yourself understood =)
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Offline Nawma_taronyu

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Re: Am I doin' it right?
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2010, 11:05:16 am »
I hate Idioms, when you used them all your life you tend to think there not idioms, makes learning a language harder
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Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: Am I doin' it right?
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2010, 11:15:01 am »
Kaltxì ma Fmawntu Anusume.  Kemeoauniaea's advice is excellent.  The only thing i would add is that, while it is difficult to talk about the world with a limited vocabulary, it does give you the opportunity to flex your creative muscles a bit.  So, while we don't have a way to say something was difficult yet, you can say something ke lu ftue.  Trying to find a different way to say what you mean, or to describe something you don't have a word for, is good mental exercise—especially for a budding journalist, who above all people needs to be able to make artful use of language ;)

In any case, i think journaling in Na'vi is a great idea.  And i like that you're sharing your entries, since the real "test" is making yourself understood =)

That's certainly very good advice, I noticed back in January when the dictionary was so much massively smaller than it is now that my ability to come up with synonyms had increased hugely after starting to learn na'vi seriously.

I hate Idioms, when you used them all your life you tend to think there not idioms, makes learning a language harder

I only realised how stupid they were when I saw a book in one of my Spanish teacher's classes called "101 Spanish idioms" that gave them in Spanish, literal English and appropriate translation with the disguised cod being on the front cover, that made me laugh so much I did one of my pieces of coursework (which are ~ 200 word passages on a given subject) with the sole aim of getting as many in as possible.  ;D
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Offline Kyle Kepone

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Re: Am I doin' it right?
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2010, 11:43:31 am »
Irayo, my friends! This is great stuff!

I will say that it's been a challenge to create sentences in a word order other than the one used in English. I will take your pieces of advice to heart, though, and get back to studying even harder!
« Last Edit: June 10, 2010, 12:13:09 pm by Fmawntu Anusume »
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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Am I doin' it right?
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2010, 08:42:56 pm »
That's certainly very good advice, I noticed back in January when the dictionary was so much massively smaller than it is now that my ability to come up with synonyms had increased hugely after starting to learn na'vi seriously.

Very interesting piece of `ìngìisì, ma `eylan  :P

The bit on the difference between a gerund and a participle is very helpful!

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Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: Am I doin' it right?
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2010, 01:56:51 am »
That's certainly very good advice; I noticed back in January, when the dictionary was so much massively smaller than it is now, that my ability to come up with synonyms had increased hugely after starting to learn na'vi seriously.

Very interesting piece of `ìngìisì, ma `eylan  :P

The bit on the difference between a gerund and a participle is very helpful!


1. Looking back at it, there must be a nicer way to say that, or at least punctuate it but I'm almost tempted to leave it just for how 'interesting' it is/was. That's probably better as re-punctuated above (I definitely have a tendency to under-punctuate).

2. It's annoying that Western European languages don't distinguish, it would make it so much easier. Also, it's important to bear in mind that it's not always easy to tell whether it's an adjective or noun e.g. in the sentence "I was running" so you might accidentally use a gerund instead of a past imperfective.
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Offline Kyle Kepone

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Re: Am I doin' it right?
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2010, 04:11:14 am »
Entry 2:

Friday – Trrpuve

I made music last night. It was disharmonious.

Oel txonam pamtseo si/(s<ol>i?). Keme'em (keame'em?) fko l(<ol>)u.

I have been thinking about the future...

Oel zusawkrr lu/[have been] tìfpusìl teri...

I'm saving all of the critiques and advice you're giving me, btw. Just thought I would let you know. :D
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Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: Am I doin' it right?
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2010, 05:35:59 am »
1. txonam would normally come at the start or end of the clause, I don't think it's wrong where it is, it just looks odd. It should just be oe, there's no direct object, pamtseo si is intransitive. <am> not <ol> or <>, the even happened in the past, that it is over isn't specified and isn't what is important. keme'em is correct. tsaw is it, fko is one as in "one can buy sweets there". Again, you'd use <am> here although it can be dropped and assumed from the <am> in si. So corrected version:

txonam oe pamtseo sami. tsaw keme'em l(<am>)u

2. teri is an adposition, you are thinking about the future so teri is an adposition on zusawkrr so you either have teri zusawkrr or zusawkrrteri. oe not oel, to think is intransitive. I have been thinking ~ I was thinking, which is <arm>, if you ever see "to be verbing" in English you're pretty much always looking at some form of <er>, never a participle and lu, and probably never a gerund and lu. Corrected version:

oe teri zusawkrr fparmìl
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Offline Kyle Kepone

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Re: Am I doin' it right?
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2010, 11:32:37 am »
Hmm. I'm thinking I need to not write these at three in the morning my time. Lol it never even crossed my mind that "was" could replace "have been." irayo!
« Last Edit: June 11, 2010, 11:35:19 am by Fmawntu Anusume »
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Re: Am I doin' it right?
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2010, 04:27:14 pm »
Once you've been studying the language for over six months you remember important things that we can't express properly (like have been) and how to cope with them.
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Offline Kyle Kepone

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Re: Am I doin' it right?
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2010, 03:27:47 am »
While I wait for the iPhone/Touch app to come out, this journaling thing is really opening up the language for me.

Entry 3: Saturday – Trrkive

Tonight, I ran under the stars. Yesterday, I searched again for a job. Unsuccessful.

Fitxon, äotanhìt oe t<ol>ul. Trram, oel fwolew tìkangkemit nìmun. Keflä. :(

EDIT: By the way, is there any way to edit the name of this thread, make it something other than "Am I doin' it right?"

If so, I'd like to name it something like, "Na'vi journal project" or something.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2010, 03:29:42 am by Fmawntu Anusume »
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Offline MIPP

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Re: Am I doin' it right?
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2010, 03:58:19 am »
While I wait for the iPhone/Touch app to come out, this journaling thing is really opening up the language for me.

Entry 3: Saturday – Trrkive

Tonight, I ran under the stars. Yesterday, I searched again for a job. Unsuccessful.

Fitxon, äotanhìt oe t<ol>ul. Trram, oel fwolew tìkangkemit nìmun. Keflä. :(

EDIT: By the way, is there any way to edit the name of this thread, make it something other than "Am I doin' it right?"

If so, I'd like to name it something like, "Na'vi journal project" or something.

I'd write something like that (don't ptomise it is correct)

Trrkive,

Fìtxon (with an ì),

oel lamen äoayut (don't know if i can use two prefixes) atan si (as tanhì is the things that the Na'vi people have in their faces) rosaw (id use fkiptaw, but it is not possible). Trram, famwew tìkangkemit nìmun. Ke flamängä.

So in the end, it would be:

Fìtxon,

oel lamen äoayut atan si rosaw. Trram, famwew tìkangkemit nìmun. Ke flamängä.


P.s. you can change the title, just ask it to a mod of the area or an admin.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2010, 04:07:14 am by MIPP »
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Offline Kyle Kepone

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Re: Am I doin' it right?
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2010, 04:01:40 am »
Irayo, ma smuk.

I think I'll go do that...
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Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: Am I doin' it right?
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2010, 04:20:30 am »
While I wait for the iPhone/Touch app to come out, this journaling thing is really opening up the language for me.

Entry 3: Saturday – Trrkive

Tonight, I ran under the stars. Yesterday, I searched again for a job. Unsuccessful.

Fitxon, äotanhìt oe t<ol>ul. Trram, oel fwolew tìkangkemit nìmun. Keflä. :(

EDIT: By the way, is there any way to edit the name of this thread, make it something other than "Am I doin' it right?"

If so, I'd like to name it something like, "Na'vi journal project" or something.

MIPP correctly pointed out the ì in fìtxon but made some very big mistakes in his corrections of the rest, first of all I'll run through your sentence though.

Adpositions only attach if they come after the noun so it's äo tanhì, also a noun with an adposition cannot take a case.

I'd probably either use <am>, that the event happened in the past is more important than its completion here (at least in my mind) and the running certainly wouldn't have been momentary.

Again, in fwew, I'd probably use <am> because the completion isn't what you want to emphasise, you're focussing on the time it happened also the event was not momentary so <ol> is probably incorrect. If you do use the same tense/aspect as the first, remember that you can drop it in the second verb as it can be assumed.

And flä is a verb so unsuccesful would be *keleflä although this a dodgy descriptor, I'd probably say "ke flolängä" instead.

So I'd say it as:

Saturday - Trrkive

Fìtxon äo tanhì oe tamul. trram (oel) fw(<am>)ew tìkangkemit nìmun. ke flolängä





If this works like most other forums I've been on the topic title is just the subject of the first post, if you edit that it should do it.

oel lamen äoayut (don't know if i can use two prefixes) atan si (as tanhì is the things that the Na'vi people have in their faces) rosaw (id use fkiptaw, but it is not possible). Trram, famwew tìkangkemit nìmun. Ke flamängä.

So in the end, it would be:

Fìtxon,

oel lamen äoayut atan si rosaw. Trram, famwew tìkangkemit nìmun. Ke flamängä.


P.s. you can change the title, just ask it to a mod of the area or an admin.


1. The first sentence is nonsensical. "I occurred things below things light make at sky". tanhì was star before it was the bioluminescent dots, that second use is metaphorical, or possibly the na'vi think the stars are bioluminescent dots, it doesn't matter, fmawntu's use of tanhì was correct. Nouns with adpositions cannot take cases (that should probably be added to the list of common mistakes). And, why len, what was wrong with tul (which was much closer to the English)?

In the second sentence your infix is in the wrong place, they always go before the vowel so it's fwamew. In the third sentence the success would have a momentary event so <ol> might be better, <am> certainly isn't wrong though.
Internet Acronyms Nìna'vi

hamletä tìralpuseng lena'vi sngolä'eiyi. tìkangkem si awngahu ro
http://bit.ly/53GnAB
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txo nga new oehu pivlltxe nìna'vi, nga oer 'eylan si mì fayspuk (http://bit.ly/bp9fwf)
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Offline MIPP

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Re: Am I doin' it right?
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2010, 04:43:20 am »
While I wait for the iPhone/Touch app to come out, this journaling thing is really opening up the language for me.

Entry 3: Saturday – Trrkive

Tonight, I ran under the stars. Yesterday, I searched again for a job. Unsuccessful.

Fitxon, äotanhìt oe t<ol>ul. Trram, oel fwolew tìkangkemit nìmun. Keflä. :(

EDIT: By the way, is there any way to edit the name of this thread, make it something other than "Am I doin' it right?"

If so, I'd like to name it something like, "Na'vi journal project" or something.

MIPP correctly pointed out the ì in fìtxon but made some very big mistakes in his corrections of the rest, first of all I'll run through your sentence though.

Adpositions only attach if they come after the noun so it's äo tanhì, also a noun with an adposition cannot take a case.

I'd probably either use <am>, that the event happened in the past is more important than its completion here (at least in my mind) and the running certainly wouldn't have been momentary.

Again, in fwew, I'd probably use <am> because the completion isn't what you want to emphasise, you're focussing on the time it happened also the event was not momentary so <ol> is probably incorrect. If you do use the same tense/aspect as the first, remember that you can drop it in the second verb as it can be assumed.

And flä is a verb so unsuccesful would be *keleflä although this a dodgy descriptor, I'd probably say "ke flolängä" instead.

So I'd say it as:

Saturday - Trrkive

Fìtxon äo tanhì oe tamul. trram (oel) fw(<am>)ew tìkangkemit nìmun. ke flolängä





If this works like most other forums I've been on the topic title is just the subject of the first post, if you edit that it should do it.

oel lamen äoayut (don't know if i can use two prefixes) atan si (as tanhì is the things that the Na'vi people have in their faces) rosaw (id use fkiptaw, but it is not possible). Trram, famwew tìkangkemit nìmun. Ke flamängä.

So in the end, it would be:

Fìtxon,

oel lamen äoayut atan si rosaw. Trram, famwew tìkangkemit nìmun. Ke flamängä.


P.s. you can change the title, just ask it to a mod of the area or an admin.


1. The first sentence is nonsensical. "I occurred things below things light make at sky". tanhì was star before it was the bioluminescent dots, that second use is metaphorical, or possibly the na'vi think the stars are bioluminescent dots, it doesn't matter, fmawntu's use of tanhì was correct. Nouns with adpositions cannot take cases (that should probably be added to the list of common mistakes). And, why len, what was wrong with tul (which was much closer to the English)?

In the second sentence your infix is in the wrong place, they always go before the vowel so it's fwamew. In the third sentence the success would have a momentary event so <ol> might be better, <am> certainly isn't wrong though.


Thank you ma tsmukan. I guess my biggest mistake was in the stars, then i put the infixe in the worng place, but i know it, i guess i was not with attention and i may have clicked with my mouse in the wrong place.
About the <ol> i still don't know when to use it instead of <am> :(
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Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: Am I doin' it right?
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2010, 05:17:08 am »
<ol> vs <am> is tricky.

In general, <ol> is used for momentary events or ones where the completion of the event is important.

<am> is used when it is important to specify that the event happened in the past.

<alm> would be used when it either was a momentary action and it is important to state that it happened in the past, or when it is important to state that the action is completed and that it also took place in the past.
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Offline MIPP

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Re: Am I doin' it right?
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2010, 07:15:47 am »
<ol> vs <am> is tricky.

In general, <ol> is used for momentary events or ones where the completion of the event is important.

<am> is used when it is important to specify that the event happened in the past.

<alm> would be used when it either was a momentary action and it is important to state that it happened in the past, or when it is important to state that the action is completed and that it also took place in the past.

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Offline Kyle Kepone

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Re: Na'vi Journal Project
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2010, 01:04:23 pm »
Irayo Kemeoauniaea, you were right about the title. :D

It seems like the most trouble I'm having is with Oe/oel and the various adpositions, am vs. ol, arm, etc. I will be doing more studying so hopefully I will get it. Irayo everyone!
« Last Edit: June 12, 2010, 01:19:07 pm by Fmawntu Anusume »
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