deictic prefixes with dual nouns, nominalized adjectives and other stuff

Started by Mech, September 02, 2018, 03:55:01 AM

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Mech

Several questions :)

Do we have examples of fì- and tsa- with dual and trial nouns? Is there any contraction? "these two trees": fìmeutral or fmeutral?

How do we use adjectives without a noun, like in english "I make a new one". Do we use pum?

in the Na'vi article of Wikibooks it says that expressions like "how many" takes a plural, because we dont know the number. Do we have a canonical reference or rule for it? One official example seems to contradict it: polpxaya zìsìt (not ayzìsìt)

Also, I know that we use words like "below", "over" etc as prepositions, but how can we use them as adverbs? How to say "go down" or "look above" or "I am inside"?

Finally, I saw recently that you use the adverbial prefix nì- as a "locative" case. Something like nìtsray = in a city. Again, do we have canonical references? I admit it reminds me a bit of Esperanto, where nouns are converted to adverbs to show location or intrument. :)

Wllìm

Quote from: Mech on September 02, 2018, 03:55:01 AM
Several questions :)

Several answers! :D

Quote from: Mech on September 02, 2018, 03:55:01 AM
Do we have examples of fì- and tsa- with dual and trial nouns? Is there any contraction? "these two trees": fìmeutral or fmeutral?

Yes, and there is no contraction: fìmeutral and fìpxeutral are correct.

Quote from: Mech on September 02, 2018, 03:55:01 AM
How do we use adjectives without a noun, like in english "I make a new one". Do we use pum?

Yes, that is exactly the use case of pum. Made up example:

Skolänga'a Tsyeykìl tskoti oeyä, tafral oel ngop pumit amip.
Jake destroyed my bow, so I make a new one.

Just like in English pum / "one" needs to refer back to some other noun (in this example, tsko "bow").

You can also use pum with fì- and tsa-:

Fìtsko lu apxa, tsapum lu hì'i.
This bow is large, that one is small.

... and with genitives:

Tsko oeyä lu ean, pum Tsyeykä lu tun.
My bow is blue/green, Jake's one is red/orange.

Quote from: Mech on September 02, 2018, 03:55:01 AM
in the Na'vi article of Wikibooks it says that expressions like "how many" takes a plural, because we dont know the number. Do we have a canonical reference or rule for it? One official example seems to contradict it: polpxaya zìsìt (not ayzìsìt)

Hmm. There is a general rule that plural gets expressed only once. In other words, if you pair a noun with pxay "many" you put the noun in the singular, not in the plural, because the word "many" already indicates how many there are. With polpxay I don't see why it would be different: that also indicates how many there are, so singular would be correct (IMO).

Quote from: Mech on September 02, 2018, 03:55:01 AM
Also, I know that we use words like "below", "over" etc as prepositions, but how can we use them as adverbs? How to say "go down" or "look above" or "I am inside"?

There are separate adverbs and verbs for those: kllkä "go down" (from kllte + kä "ground + go"), nefä "up, above" (from ne + fäpa "to + top"), mìfa "inside". You cannot just use adpositions like äo, io and nemfa without a noun.

Quote from: Mech on September 02, 2018, 03:55:01 AM
Finally, I saw recently that you use the adverbial prefix nì- as a "locative" case. Something like nìtsray = in a city. Again, do we have canonical references? I admit it reminds me a bit of Esperanto, where nouns are converted to adverbs to show location or intrument. :)

AFAIK this is illegal; nì- is not productive for nouns. Maybe you mean the adposition "in" instead? For example mì sray "in the village" (from mì tsray, but causes lenition on the next word).

Vawmataw

nì- is not used for the locative ;)

I also suggest not to consult Wikibooks; we have plenty of resources here on LN anyway.
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Toliman

nì- as locatice? - this I really never see, where did you saw it? ???
Yeah, it's really not right.

Mech

I had found in dialogue nì- used this way, but now i see that it was later pointed out as wrong and it was corrected :)