Etymology of 'Omaticaya'

Started by Txepa-utral Atxkxe, January 06, 2010, 11:25:44 PM

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Txepa-utral Atxkxe

It's supposed to mean "blue flute clan". But nowhere in there do I see 'ean' and the word 'olo'. So if neither of those words are present, how do we wind up with Omaticaya?

In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane.--Oscar Wilde

Hawnuyu atìtse'a

It's another mystery that needs de-Frommerizing. No one really knows.
"And that's how you scatter the roaches."- Col. Miles Quaritch.

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Swok Txon

Yeah, when Frommer continues to improve the language (which he MUST do as he is under contract) we might find out.

Nice observation there.

Txepa-utral Atxkxe

Well...that's annoying. Irayo, ma aysmukan.
In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane.--Oscar Wilde

kewnya txamew'itan

my personal theorey is olo'mate'eankaya is the ancient/original/etymological form with olo' (clan) ma (talking to) te (used in full names) ean (blue) kaya (flute?)

so omatikaya would be a contraction of the clan of the blue flute (which we are told it is).
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Txepa-utral Atxkxe

Quote from: kawng mungeyu on January 07, 2010, 01:03:29 AM
my personal theorey is olo'mate'eankaya is the ancient/original/etymological form with olo' (clan) ma (talking to) te (used in full names) ean (blue) kaya (flute?)

so omatikaya would be a contraction of the clan of the blue flute (which we are told it is).

Huh! That's actually pretty cool! Very interesting idea.
In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane.--Oscar Wilde

kewnya txamew'itan

the only bit I'm woried about is the contraction from te'ean to ti, it's quite a big jump whilst the others are relatively small.
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Fpeioyuyä 'ite

I remember that, in an interview, Frommer said that James Cameron had already come up with several words--mostly names of people. Maybe James Cameron came up with "Omaticaya" and there's no true etymology for it.

Although the theory that kawng mungeyu posted is good enough for me!
Formerly Kerofish, in case you were wondering. Also occasionally known as kerofish1 or Delaney. Call me anything, just not skxawng!

kewnya txamew'itan

Actually it's probably more likely that Cameron came up with it.

Oh well, for now I'm sticking with my etymology because now I have a word for flute  :D
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Vinoct

Wait. Which is the correct one, Omaticaya or Omatikaya ? If its the first one, so the flute should be caya not kaya lol.

Txepa-utral Atxkxe

Quote from: kerofish on January 07, 2010, 07:51:45 AM
I remember that, in an interview, Frommer said that James Cameron had already come up with several words--mostly names of people. Maybe James Cameron came up with "Omaticaya" and there's no true etymology for it.

Although the theory that kawng mungeyu posted is good enough for me!

Hopefully we can trust Mr. Frommer to work around that particular mess. But you'd thing they would have dealt with it...seeing as it was probably one of the first words made up!
In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane.--Oscar Wilde

kewnya txamew'itan

Quote from: Vinoct on January 07, 2010, 08:56:22 AM
Wait. Which is the correct one, Omaticaya or Omatikaya ? If its the first one, so the flute should be caya not kaya lol.

omatikaya is more correct, the consonant "c" doesn't exist in Na'vi but is occasionally used in the 'scientific' transcription to mean ts. As Omatikaya definitely has a [ k ] in it when we hear it in the film, it must be meant to be a k.
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Taronyu

We do not know the origin of Omatikaya.

Omaticaya, though, is illegal - the [c] doesn't exist. Which means that we can use the illegal words in the Survival Guide's main text to talk about it. Which means that we can derive it rather well, actually. Consider these phonotactically illegal entries in the appendix of the dictionary:

omati s'ampta: [omati sʔampta] SG n. blue flute
U'imi huyuticaya: [uʔimi hujutikaja] SG prop.n. a Na'vi clan name φ

We can derive blue flute from *omati, then and say that the s'ampta is dropped. As for *caya, that obviously must mean clan. So, there we have it.

However, given that these words are completely illegal, we must also submit that this is probably a derivation made up by the ayskawng who made the guide.


The Pandoran

I'm not sure we should really relate all names to the language at this point, although I can appreciate why people are keen to. It may cause confusion.

According to the survival guide, if I remember correctly (I don't have it to hand), they were given the name by Eywa herself, who created the blue flute from a branch of the Hometree to give to the Na'vi living there as a means to connect to her through song. Names could derive from ancient languages or just sounds.

kewnya txamew'itan

Quote from: Taronyu on January 07, 2010, 10:39:45 AM
We do not know the origin of Omatikaya.

Omaticaya, though, is illegal - the [c] doesn't exist. Which means that we can use the illegal words in the Survival Guide's main text to talk about it. Which means that we can derive it rather well, actually. Consider these phonotactically illegal entries in the appendix of the dictionary:

omati s'ampta: [omati sʔampta] SG n. blue flute
U'imi huyuticaya: [uʔimi hujutikaja] SG prop.n. a Na'vi clan name φ

We can derive blue flute from *omati, then and say that the s'ampta is dropped. As for *caya, that obviously must mean clan. So, there we have it.

However, given that these words are completely illegal, we must also submit that this is probably a derivation made up by the ayskawng who made the guide.



hmm. That would be a lot closer to the name. Of course we've still got to legalise them e.g. omatis 'amta and u'imi huyutikaya. Of course to legalise it properly we need to know what was being thought of when it was written and that means Frommer.
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Tìng Eywatikìte'e

I think when it comes to clan names it is okay to take giant leaps in etymology. Just look at every one's name, they all have a meaning but it takes a vast understanding of a language to be able to map out how it came into being. Names don't follow the strict guidelines of a language. If a group a people say a phrase enough times it is constantly being shortened and bastersied until it is near impossible to recognize the original wording.   
Oeri lu Eywayä 'eveng


Hawnuyu atìtse'a

He makes a good point. Check the names thread, people are posting their names' meanings. For example, would you ever guess that Keith meant forest at some point.
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Quote from: kawngä mungeyu on January 07, 2010, 11:27:24 AM
Quote from: Taronyu on January 07, 2010, 10:39:45 AM
We do not know the origin of Omatikaya.

Omaticaya, though, is illegal - the [c] doesn't exist. Which means that we can use the illegal words in the Survival Guide's main text to talk about it. Which means that we can derive it rather well, actually. Consider these phonotactically illegal entries in the appendix of the dictionary:

omati s'ampta: [omati sʔampta] SG n. blue flute
U'imi huyuticaya: [uʔimi hujutikaja] SG prop.n. a Na'vi clan name φ

We can derive blue flute from *omati, then and say that the s'ampta is dropped. As for *caya, that obviously must mean clan. So, there we have it.

However, given that these words are completely illegal, we must also submit that this is probably a derivation made up by the ayskawng who made the guide.



hmm. That would be a lot closer to the name. Of course we've still got to legalise them e.g. omatis 'amta and u'imi huyutikaya. Of course to legalise it properly we need to know what was being thought of when it was written and that means Frommer.

Okay I have just issued a forum-wide challenge.

http://forum.learnnavi.org/general-avatar-discussion/mistakes-in-the-activist-survival-guide/msg51815/#msg51815

People keep accusing the ASG of being "written by morons," and that it was rushed, and even that it is a rip-off to fans. I am not disagreeing (so there is no need to get defensive). I am saying "prove it." I have started the discussion with three errors, one specifically that adds weight to the argument that the authors of the ASG are snumìna.

I came to this thread looking for help with the Omati s'ampta. Along the way I found a new challenge. Let's FIX the problem instead of slandering those who gave us this wealth of information.


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Kiliyä

It could also be that the Na'vi have more that one word for 'blue', as we do with purple (violet, indigo, magenta, etc.)
Peu sa'nokyä ayoengyä?  Pefya ayoeng poeru kìte'e sayi?
Pefya ayoengìl poeti hayawnu, na poel ayoengit hawnu?

What of our mother?  How shall we serve her?  How shall we protect her as she protects us?

roger

#19
Wasn't there another clan name somewhere ending in -ticaya?

"Omaticaya" is one of Cameron's names. Frommer converted Cameron to his orthography (presumably by "c" Cameron meant [k], so I wouldn't call that illegal—other examples are "Toruk Macto" to toruk makto and "olo'eyctan" to olo'eyktan), and in some cases to his phonology (e.g. "shahaylu" to tsaheylu, "Beyral" to ?Peyral). Quite possibly F asked C to pronounce the names, and went on that, but who knows what C meant by "Ckaha" (F's Ckaha = Tskaha).