How is it possible that there is a Na'vi word for Phaser and not one for cave?

[PunkMaister]

Seriously how is it possible?

When anyone is building a language shouldn't common words take priority over fancy words describing non existent Scifi weapons?

[Nyx]

Think of it like this, maybe some na'vi and sawtute were talking about their different worlds and phasers came up. The na'vi didn't have a word for this so they used the sawtute word for it when telling their friends about this strange device.

If you look in the dictionary you'll see that it's a loanword and the source is LN, which means someone here had some crazy idea and it was accepted. There are other words there too that the na'vi wouldn't have a use for on Pandora, but this language has taken some steps out of that world by now.

[Le'eylan]

Actually "feyzrr" is the one that throws me for a loop.

Feyzrr is mine. Don't worry about it.

What I remember from the Workshop was that Paul had no idea it was in the dictionary,
and it was put there just for fun...

[Nyx]

What I remember from the Workshop was that Paul had no idea it was in the dictionary,
and it was put there just for fun...

Ah, so scratch that thing I said about it being accepted. Maybe it is, but if Frommer didn't say so, I don't really dare to say that as a fact.

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

hakuna matata was briefly in the dictionary. I wish it still was. Anyway, I bet feyzzr will now disappear as well.

[PunkMaister]

You know if they are randomly going to make up words for the dictionary I'd preffer if they made words that are of common use like the example I gave before of Cave, Ring would be another, there just so many but no! Instead they make up words for useless junk such as Phasers and Hakuna Matata of all things, Yikes!

['Oma Tirea]

Sran, let's at least keep it canonical if it's to be counted as a loanword.

[Tsuksìm atsawl (KaPTan)]

You know if they are randomly going to make up words for the dictionary I'd preffer if they made words that are of common use like the example I gave before of Cave, Ring would be another, there just so many but no! Instead they make up words for useless junk such as Phasers and Hakuna Matata of all things, Yikes!

Phasers... hakuna matata?  you call this junk... how dare you! you evil person, nga zene terkup!

[Le'eylan]

we can't really come up with "serious" words, cause that's Frommer's thing ....
and I can't understand what the problem is here..
If you don't like these words, just don't use them.

[wm.annis]

nstead they make up words for useless junk such as Phasers and Hakuna Matata of all things, Yikes!

The made up words were a way to track people taking the dictionary data without attributing the work to LN.org.  Ayngari txe'lan mawey.

[Eyamsiyu]

nstead they make up words for useless junk such as Phasers and Hakuna Matata of all things, Yikes!

The made up words were a way to track people taking the dictionary data without attributing the work to LN.org.  Ayngari txe'lan mawey.

So, essentially, it is to stop plagiarism?

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

In all seriousness, the vocabulary for Na`vi was originally created to meed a need-- scripting a screenplay in the language. (I also suspect that K. Pawl was far more concerned about having a consistent grammar and syntax than in having a large vocabulary.) Since there were no caves in 'Avatar', no Na`vi word for cave was created.  Na`vi 'caught hold' as a language after the movie release and a community started to form. At first, K. Pawl would 'leak' to us really badly needed words, so that some semblance of a conversational language could exist. (There are also contractual agreements between K. Pawl and Twentieth Century Fox that we are not privy to, that may be limiting what can be released at any given time.) I got involved here about 2 months after the movie release.

Last spring, K. Pawl asked the community for a list of 1,000 words that were most needed to make Na`vi a useful conversational language. Quite a number of people here made word suggestions for this list, which was broken down into A, B and C priorities. These words were organized, along with requested supporting data, and submitted to K. Pawl. As time has gone by, Pawl has released new words derived from this list. This will probably go on for some time, before new words are asked for.

'Cave' is on the 'C' list, so at some point, we should see a Na`vi word for cave.

Although it may seem to be a limitation that all new words be created by K. Pawl, the result of this is, that all of the words will either strictly follow the Na`vi grammatical rules, or 'break' the rules in a certain way, just as all languages have words that are exceptions to its grammatical rules. Until the community fully understands all the minute details of the Na`vi language and its word formation process, we will probably be relying on K. Pawl for new vocabulary. And this will probably take some time. (I bet other conlangs, like Klingon, have a new word formation policy of some sort.)

Also, 'cave' is not all that common of a word, compared to words we use nearly every day. So it surprises me that it is even on the LEP word list (as it surprises me that a number of equally  uncommon terms relating to predator biology that I suggested, made the list). The LEP is an amazing piece of collective work. It shows the diversity of thinking, backgrounds and experiences of all the people on this list.

You can find all the various LEP word lists by poking around the 'Lexical Expansion Project' section of 'Language Updates'. There is also a thread here, called 'Words for the Q list', where you can suggest new words for the next LEP. But before adding anything there, check the current LEP lists to see if it hasn't already been suggested.

[Txur’Itan]

This like other Loan words are in actuality to be thought of as examples of phonetically spelling foriegn/alien language in the Na'vi phonology.

All languages attempt to adopt words/names for things that are heard, seen, or touched.  Whether it be descriptive using existing vocabulary, or borrowed from another language.

Cave would probably have a native word, that simply has not been provided to us yet.

And feyzrr would likely never come up in conversation between native Na'vi.

[wm.annis]

So, essentially, it is to stop plagiarism?

Sort of.  The copyright terms of the dictionary (last time I checked) allowed copying.  You just had to say it came from here.

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

Na`vi A: `upe ngaru lu, ma smukan.

Na`vi B: lu oeru feyzzr.

Na`vi A: Hakuna matata nang. Oeng akxuke lu set.

Na`vi B: Sran niltsan nang.

Na`vi A: Tsengpe ngal rolun feyzzrit.

Na`vi B: käsatseng mì kllte atsenge.

[Kamean]

hakuna matata was briefly in the dictionary. I wish it still was. Anyway, I bet feyzzr will now disappear as well.

Hakuna matata in Suahili mean something like "Its all right"
But idea is not bad.

[Dreamlight]

It's our problem freeeee philosophyyyyy, Hakuna Matata!

[Kamean]

It's our problem freeeee philosophyyyyy, Hakuna Matata!

[Kyle Kepone]

Na`vi A: `upe ngaru lu, ma smukan.

Na`vi B: lu oeru feyzzr.

Na`vi A: Hakuna matata nang. Oeng akxuke lu set.

Na`vi B: Sran niltsan nang.

Na`vi A: Tsengpe ngal rolun feyzzrit.

Na`vi B: käsatseng mì kllte atsenge.

^^ Like.

Honestly though, Na'vi is being constantly compared to Klingon so don't you find it reasonable that some Star Trek nonsense would make its way into Na'vi? I find it pretty funny myself.

I think you should remember that this isn't an "official foreign language" but a constructed language that serves a singular purpose - to add depth to a movie script. It's fun and interesting and certainly educational to learn Na'vi but we most likely aren't going to be sending a delegation to the UN anytime soon, so we can be a little silly from time to time. And as 'Eylan Ayfalulukanä has pointed out, cave does indeed have a corresponding Na'vi word. 

Just have fun with it!

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

Honestly though, Na'vi is being constantly compared to Klingon so don't you find it reasonable that some Star Trek nonsense would make its way into Na'vi? I find it pretty funny myself.

I think you should remember that this isn't an "official foreign language" but a constructed language that serves a singular purpose - to add depth to a movie script. It's fun and interesting and certainly educational to learn Na'vi but we most likely aren't going to be sending a delegation to the UN anytime soon, so we can be a little silly from time to time. And as 'Eylan Ayfalulukanä has pointed out, cave does indeed have a corresponding Na'vi word. 

Just have fun with it!

And 'Lion King', too. Maybe we need a lion conlang too (there is Kizinti, but those aren't very nice kitties). 

Yes, Na`vi was created for a movie, but so was Klingon. Look where Klingon has gone. Why can't Na`vi do the same thing? Indeed a recent report put Na`vi very nearly as popular as Klingon, which means that it has probably eclipsed the Elvish conlangs for popularity. It is Paul Frommer's hope, as well as many here, that Na`vi grows to become a useful (in its context) as a conversational language. Although I don't think you will see Na`vi being spoken in particle accelerator labs anytime soon (although I am trying to change that!), it can be used for a lot of more casual things. I am sure Na`vi will continue to pick up loanwords, and technology terms. It will also continue to grow in its 'native' vocabulary. The popularity of the language is up to folks like everyone here, who love Na`vi are are willing to put in the considerable effort to truly make the language 'their own'.

Ivong Na`vi!