If best in Na'vi is Swey what would the word Better be? A composite of Swey?

Started by PunkMaister, March 30, 2010, 05:00:45 PM

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PunkMaister

According to the Na'vi PDF Dictionary ( :D Very Darn useful by the way :D) does anyone know since the Na'vi word for best is Swey if the derivative for Better is composite of Swey or a whole different word all together?


wm.annis

There probably is no word for "better."  "Best" seems some sort of exception.

If you want to say "A is ADJ-er than B", you say "A to B lu ADJ," as in, for example, po to oe lu sìltsan she is better than me (Corpus).

Based on a single example from the film, it seems like if you want to say "better" without actually comparing to anything, you could say sìltsan nì'ul (in the film it's txur nì'ul, which Neytiri immediately follows with English "stronger").

Edit: I spel gud

omängum fra'uti

Did you mean "poe" not "pe" there, or does gender now cause elision on "po" as well as "tute"?
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

PunkMaister

Quote from: wm.annis on March 30, 2010, 05:14:19 PM
There probably is no word for "better."  "Best" seems some sort of exception.

If you want to say "A is ADJ-er than B", you say "A to B lu ADJ," as in, for example, pe to oe lu sìltsan she is better than me (Corpus).

Based on a single example from the film, it seems like if you want to say "better" without actually comparing to anything, you could say sìltsan nì'ul (in the film it's txur nì'ul, which Neytiri immediately follows with English "stronger").

Cool so how does the now completed statement in Na'vi sounds to you guys here it is:

"krr ne tivel ne omum nga sìltsan nì'ul" Time to to get to know you better

I know, I know that conjugating words the same way as one would in English or Spanish does not work many times as intended in many Scifi fantasy languges but is the best I could come up with and it should be good enough for Fics or RPs. Having said that I'm sure glad I'm not for example in the bridge of some Spaceship and trying to say the same way I did here in Goa'uld surrender or perish" as it would probably sound to them like something as "Destroy my ship now!"  Again just an example thx for all the help people you rock!  ;D

Kä'eng

Quote from: omängum fra'uti on March 30, 2010, 05:30:57 PM
Did you mean "poe" not "pe" there, or does gender now cause elision on "po" as well as "tute"?

The corpus just says po. I sure hope poe can't be abbreviated as pe, since that would be very easy to confuse with pe+/-pe:

pe saronyur plltxe = She speaks to the hunters.
pesaronyur plltxe = What hunter is spoken to?
Ma evi, ke'u ke lu prrte' to fwa sim tuteot ayawne.
Slä txo tuteo fmi 'ivampi ngat ro seng, fu nìfya'o, a 'eykefu ngati vä', tsakem ke lu sìltsan.
Tsaw lu ngeyä tokx! Kawtu ke tsun nìmuiä 'ivampi ngat txo ngal ke new tsakemit.
Ha kempe si nga? Nì'awve, nga plltxe san kehe. Tsakrr, ngal tsatsengti hum!

wm.annis

Quote from: omängum fra'uti on March 30, 2010, 05:30:57 PM
Did you mean "poe" not "pe" there, or does gender now cause elision on "po" as well as "tute"?

Typo!  I meant po.  Fixed.

omängum fra'uti

Quote from: PunkMaister on March 30, 2010, 05:47:15 PM
Cool so how does the now completed statement in Na'vi sounds to you guys here it is:

"krr ne tivel ne omum nga sìltsan nì'ul" Time to to get to know you better
It sounds like it's mostly just word substitution, not translation.  (See my "mistakes" thread about translating too literally.)  To be honest, if you want "good enough for fanfic or RP" just put in the English and say it was said in Na'vi.  If you really want the Na'vi in there, you should probably aim higher than "good enough".  Anyway moving on to the learning part...

The word "ne" is a preposition, it can't be used in all theplaces that you'd use "to" in English.  In fact, the only place it CAN be used is in directions (Go to the tree).  All other uses are not correct.  Also "get" in that sense is an auxiliary verb which doesn't mean the same thing as "get" on it's own, and it doesn't translate directly.  (The word "get" in English is actually an awful word in it's own right, but that's another matter.)

By the mantra of "translate the meaning, not the words", what you're trying to say would possibly be more like "Know you more" or "Know more about you", or even "Learn more about you".  To that end it would probably be...

Set lu krr a oel ngati ivomum nì'ul
Now is the time that I know you more.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

wm.annis


omängum fra'uti

Because it's not a definitive "Now is the time I know you better" - it's something that you're proposing is starting to come about.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

wm.annis

Quote from: omängum fra'uti on March 30, 2010, 06:14:19 PMBecause it's not a definitive "Now is the time I know you better" - it's something that you're proposing is starting to come about.

What evidence is there for this sort of use of the subjunctive in Na'vi?

omängum fra'uti

I'm seeing it as something related to the imperative use of the subjunctive, but that's about all I have to go on.  Truthfully, outside the required usages and the imperative, I'm a bit shaky on when to use the subjunctive.  But without it, the sentence feels like it's missing something to convey the right meaning.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

wm.annis

Quote from: omängum fra'uti on March 30, 2010, 06:19:59 PMTruthfully, outside the required usages and the imperative, I'm a bit shaky on when to use the subjunctive. 

The Na'vi subjunctive seems to me highly grammaticalized, that is, it has certain places where it is just required, quite independent of some of the finer shades of mood that the subjunctive can have in other languages.  I would be very hesitant to use it outside the required uses (including optative and imperative alternate form).

omängum fra'uti

Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

wm.annis

Quote from: omängum fra'uti on March 30, 2010, 06:26:57 PMSo how would you express that sentence then?

Just as you gave it, but without the subjunctive: Set lu krr a oel ngati omum nì'ul.

Such a statement isn't a normal truth proposition — it's a speech act.  It doesn't need to be wrapped in uncertainties.

PunkMaister

Quote from: omängum fra'uti on March 30, 2010, 06:09:43 PM
Quote from: PunkMaister on March 30, 2010, 05:47:15 PM
Cool so how does the now completed statement in Na'vi sounds to you guys here it is:

"krr ne tivel ne omum nga sìltsan nì'ul" Time to to get to know you better
It sounds like it's mostly just word substitution, not translation.  (See my "mistakes" thread about translating too literally.)  To be honest, if you want "good enough for fanfic or RP" just put in the English and say it was said in Na'vi.  If you really want the Na'vi in there, you should probably aim higher than "good enough".  Anyway moving on to the learning part...

The word "ne" is a preposition, it can't be used in all theplaces that you'd use "to" in English.  In fact, the only place it CAN be used is in directions (Go to the tree).  All other uses are not correct.  Also "get" in that sense is an auxiliary verb which doesn't mean the same thing as "get" on it's own, and it doesn't translate directly.  (The word "get" in English is actually an awful word in it's own right, but that's another matter.)

By the mantra of "translate the meaning, not the words", what you're trying to say would possibly be more like "Know you more" or "Know more about you", or even "Learn more about you".  To that end it would probably be...

Set lu krr a oel ngati ivomum nì'ul
Now is the time that I know you more.

I'll keep all that in mind but I will not be just switching to English and say ir was said in Na'vi at least some statements in the actual language go a long way.

omängum fra'uti

Well consider this a great opportunity to learn Na'vi by doing. :)  Feel free to ask about anything else you are unsure of, there are plenty here willing to help you learn.  I hope my post (Up to the probably more technical discussion between wm.annis and myself, anyway) gave you better understanding.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!