Author Topic: Is there a standard word order for Na'vi?  (Read 563 times)

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Offline Tireatìranyu29

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Is there a standard word order for Na'vi?
« on: July 19, 2017, 09:59:35 am »
I know in a lot of languages that have free word order you can just say what you want to say in whatever order, but they usually have a preference sequence. I've seen all orders represented in conversations, but I haven't been around long enough to see what order is prefered. Any help? Irayo, in advance  ;)

Offline Vawmataw

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Re: Is there a standard word order for Na'vi?
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2017, 11:39:41 am »
There isn't really a preferred or standard word order, although people naturally use SVO because of English.

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Is there a standard word order for Na'vi?
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2017, 11:46:03 am »
I know in a lot of languages that have free word order you can just say what you want to say in whatever order, but they usually have a preference sequence. I've seen all orders represented in conversations, but I haven't been around long enough to see what order is prefered. Any help? Irayo, in advance  ;)

Kaltxì! and Good question.  What we have in Na'vi is a flexible word order that has a few restrictions on certain structures to ensure that what you say makes some kind of actual sense.  To be able to put every single word in any order whatsoever no matter how long the sentence is or how many clauses or subclauses it has would be beyond insane and incomprehensible.

Simple 2 and 3 word sentences (specifically, Subject Verb, and Subject Verb Object) do indeed have free word order of those components. Though which order you put them in makes a slight difference on the emphasis, since the emphasis spot is the end or last word of the sentence.

So for example,

oel ngati kameie (I See you) can be written in all possible orders.

But a moderately complex or very complex sentence will have rules about what can go where or which words should not be separated by words coming in between. I'd be happy to explain every single possible word order restriction, but that may take some time. I feel like time would be better spent making sentences and seeing if the order works or not and talk about restrictions as they come up in practice.

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Offline Vawmataw

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Re: Is there a standard word order for Na'vi?
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2017, 11:47:32 am »
I'd not talk about a word order but rather a clause order.

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Is there a standard word order for Na'vi?
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2017, 11:51:34 am »
why not talk about word order? That's where the restrictions are, within a clause. Even order of clauses themselves can be restricted if there is a conjunction that has no backwards form.

So any way you look at it, the word order is flexible but never totally free unless the sentence is of form "S V" or "S O V" or similar that does not involve adjectives, possession, or multiple clauses.

Basically... The answer to the original question "Is there a Standard Word Order for Na'vi?" is "No, there is no standard word order because the word order is flexible and people make use of its flexibility. However, SOV is a popular word order."

As for "What are the stipulations/exceptions/rules of the Na'vi word order?", it would be easier to answer something like "Is the order of the following Na'vi sentence correct...?"

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Offline Tanri

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Re: Is there a standard word order for Na'vi?
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2017, 02:45:28 pm »
This discussion is the nice example for which I call this "free constituents order".  ;)
(constituent = grammatical part of the sentence, be it single word or huge complicated structure, doesn't matter)

Words within a single constituent are usually less free, because of various grammatical rules...
Tìvawmìri txopu rä’ä si. Nrr!

Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Is there a standard word order for Na'vi?
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2017, 08:43:53 am »
In the beginnings of Na'vi it was told that SOV is mostly used order. Now - hard to say. IMHO everyone has it's own popular order - for example I most often use SVO, as it is standard order in my native tongue. Various orders can be used to emphasize some part, although it is not clear where "punch" goes. One time Paul said it is at the end of sentence, but it is not fully clear.
Use any order which is comfortable for you - your words should by understood :) No worry.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline Mech

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Re: Is there a standard word order for Na'vi?
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2017, 01:57:00 pm »
A free word order is one thing and a preferred word order is another. In general all inflected languages have a free word order, but there is a general preference, and alternative word orders are reserved for emphasis or special expressions (like poetry). Take for example English. You can say "I have only a moment" in several ways. If you say "Only a moment I have" or "I have a moment only" will have different registers.

So, saying that Na'vi word order is totally free, this would mean that all combinations (SVO, OSV, OVS, SOV, VOS, VSO) would be used in equal frequency. I think this is statistically impossible. The mass of the speakers would unconsciously shift towards at least one of the six. The language would also develop by itself alternate functions for the other combinations or even obsolete one or more.

The Horen leNa'vi document has a paragraph on the questions and finds a statistical shift towards one of the combinations. It also rejects some more complex word-orders.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 03:52:36 pm by Mech »

Offline trdrpxplds

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Re: Is there a standard word order for Na'vi?
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2017, 02:57:12 pm »
The Horen leNa'vi document has a paragraph on the questions and finds a statistical s*** towards one of the combinations. It also rejects some more complex word-orders.

How did the word "s***" get into here? Did you mean to type "shift"?

Offline Mech

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Re: Is there a standard word order for Na'vi?
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2017, 03:53:59 pm »
:facepalm: Exactly

;D

Offline Tireatìranyu29

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Re: Is there a standard word order for Na'vi?
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2017, 02:17:44 pm »
I know in a lot of languages that have free word order you can just say what you want to say in whatever order, but they usually have a preference sequence. I've seen all orders represented in conversations, but I haven't been around long enough to see what order is prefered. Any help? Irayo, in advance  ;)

Kaltxì! and Good question.  What we have in Na'vi is a flexible word order that has a few restrictions on certain structures to ensure that what you say makes some kind of actual sense.  To be able to put every single word in any order whatsoever no matter how long the sentence is or how many clauses or subclauses it has would be beyond insane and incomprehensible.

Simple 2 and 3 word sentences (specifically, Subject Verb, and Subject Verb Object) do indeed have free word order of those components. Though which order you put them in makes a slight difference on the emphasis, since the emphasis spot is the end or last word of the sentence.

So for example,

oel ngati kameie (I See you) can be written in all possible orders.

But a moderately complex or very complex sentence will have rules about what can go where or which words should not be separated by words coming in between. I'd be happy to explain every single possible word order restriction, but that may take some time. I feel like time would be better spent making sentences and seeing if the order works or not and talk about restrictions as they come up in practice.

No need to do that oeyä 'eylan, irayo :)

Offline Teyvit te Koletxi Rosarey'itan

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Re: Is there a standard word order for Na'vi?
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2018, 02:06:34 pm »
I prefer SOV  :)

Offline Toliman

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Re: Is there a standard word order for Na'vi?
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2018, 05:31:34 am »
I moreless prefer SVO but not strictly, I like that Na'vi has free word order like as my native language.

« Last Edit: July 12, 2018, 05:37:43 am by Toliman »

Offline Teyvit te Koletxi Rosarey'itan

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Re: Is there a standard word order for Na'vi?
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2018, 06:08:11 am »
I moreless prefer SVO but not strictly, I like that Na'vi has free word order like as my native language.

Ma Toliman kaltxì za'u nga ftu Czech Republic kefyak  :)
oe ke omolum li'fya nìCzechru kawkxana li'ukìng :)


Offline Toliman

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Re: Is there a standard word order for Na'vi?
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2018, 06:15:26 am »
Ma Toliman kaltxì za'u nga ftu Czech Republic kefyak  :)
Srane, oe za'u.

oe ke omolum li'fya nìCzechru kawkxana li'ukìng :)
Yeah, Czech has free word order :)

Offline Teyvit te Koletxi Rosarey'itan

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Re: Is there a standard word order for Na'vi?
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2018, 06:27:18 am »
Srake li'fya nìCzechru ayeoli'uvi sì ayhemli'uvi sì uoli'uvi :)


Offline Toliman

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Re: Is there a standard word order for Na'vi?
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2018, 06:43:24 am »
prefixes - yeah, but it's a bit difficult, you can read more here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_language#Grammar

Infixes - no. this we really don't have, infixes are really unusuall (one reason why I love Na'vi)

In any case, Czech is extremely difficult language to study.

Offline Teyvit te Koletxi Rosarey'itan

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Re: Is there a standard word order for Na'vi?
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2018, 07:05:10 am »
Txantsan oe ngaru irayo seiyi  :)


Offline Toliman

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Re: Is there a standard word order for Na'vi?
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2018, 07:20:44 am »
Txantsan oe ngaru irayo seiyi  :)
Kea tìkin :)

 

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