Author Topic: ke has fixed position?  (Read 1701 times)

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Offline Tìmuiäyä'itan

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Re: ke has fixed position?
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2010, 03:42:03 pm »
No, I think nìn would be better: There is uproar among the poeple, and Jesus doesn't only see them when speaking but is looking at them...

I still do not understand why Jesus would get ergative ending although it's the main clause with an intransitive verb, and the subject is omitted in the attributive clause "a narmìn ayfoti"?
srungìri ftära tsyokxìl ngeyä
ke ivomum futa pesuru
lu srung skiena tsyokxta ngeyä
ulte Jesus a nerìn ayfo pamlltxe
san sutehu lu keltsun
slä Yawähu frakem tsunslu sìk.

Offline Muzer

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Re: ke has fixed position?
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2010, 03:44:56 pm »
He didn't get an ergative ending.
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Offline Tìmuiäyä'itan

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Re: ke has fixed position?
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2010, 03:48:46 pm »
Oh, sorry, misinterpreted the ì.  :-X Oe leru skxawng!  ::) Sometimes...  ;D
srungìri ftära tsyokxìl ngeyä
ke ivomum futa pesuru
lu srung skiena tsyokxta ngeyä
ulte Jesus a nerìn ayfo pamlltxe
san sutehu lu keltsun
slä Yawähu frakem tsunslu sìk.

Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: ke has fixed position?
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2010, 04:49:59 pm »
That said, in na'vi, participles cannot retain any of their verbal arguments and so we cannot say that Jesus is seeing them. What I'd say instead is that tengkrr should be used so "Tsesusì tengkrr a narmìn ayfoti poltxe"
I'm not sure I see what you are doing with tengkrr here. Narmìn ayfoti is being attributed to tengkrr, which is a conj. How does that work?
I could see tengkrr as a part of the attributive clause, Jesus a tengkrr narmìn ayfoti poltxe, but using both tengkrr and <er> seems a bit redundant.

Gah! I forgot tengkrr's syntax. In that case:

"Tsesusì poltxe tengkrr narmìn ayfoti" would be my suggested translation.

"Tsesusì a tsarme'a ayfoti pamlltxe" would be the one that seems right to me - "Jesus, who was seeing them, spoke" (tse'a seems better than nìn here to me, and poltxe would be more like "has spoken", which doesn't really sound right in this context).

I don't like this. I highlighted my main reasons for disliking the attributive use earlier, no sense in me repeating them.
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Offline Pxia Säsngap

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Re: ke has fixed position?
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2010, 05:31:56 pm »
A little less important, but interesting: Why did you transcribe god like that (yawä)? I would have created something similar (sound) like god or at least, using the jahwe, yavä or yave. (last example could be influenced by being a native speaker of another language than you. In German we pronounce jahwe like that.   So...I'm only interested in understanding why you have chosen to transcribe jahwe instead of god.  :P  :)
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Offline Carborundum

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Re: ke has fixed position?
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2010, 05:37:20 pm »
A little less important, but interesting: Why did you transcribe god like that (yawä)? I would have created something similar (sound) like god or at least, using the jahwe, yavä or yave. (last example could be influenced by being a native speaker of another language than you. In German we pronounce jahwe like that.   So...I'm only interested in understanding why you have chosen to transcribe jahwe instead of god.  :P  :)
I'm just guessing here, but maybe it's because "god" is actually a word for which we currently have no translation?
Yahweh, on the other hand, is a name, which can be transcribed using phonology.
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Offline Tìmuiäyä'itan

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Re: ke has fixed position?
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2010, 05:41:11 pm »
I am German, this is why I use Yawä. I think it's the closest you can go soundwise, though sometimes I wonder if Yawì would not be closer, as I was told the ì would sound rather like a Schwa than like an "e" in English/"i" in German.

Of course, writing German, I write Jahwe, but Na’vi has no "j" but uses the y, which is the same sound to German j. I think the h would have been pronounced in Na’vi, but I tend to consider it only a mater lectionis in the Hebrew.

There's also no v in Na’vi, so I think Yawä is pretty close. English mother tunges told me though, they'd rather use "Yawey", which is certainly not how we pronounce it ;)

Ah, I see, you meant why I do not really use "god"? Well, God is a term, not a name. So you have to translate it (maybe something with ekytan) or forget about it. I see no sense in introducing English loan-word into Na’vi, that'd be too cheap, I rather wait for Frommer to tell us the word for god...
Jahwe on the other hand is a name, and need not be translated. We also say Apostle Peter and not Apostle Rock-Man...
srungìri ftära tsyokxìl ngeyä
ke ivomum futa pesuru
lu srung skiena tsyokxta ngeyä
ulte Jesus a nerìn ayfo pamlltxe
san sutehu lu keltsun
slä Yawähu frakem tsunslu sìk.

Offline Pxia Säsngap

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Re: ke has fixed position?
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2010, 05:48:13 pm »
I am German, this is why I use Yawä. I think it's the closest you can go soundwise, though sometimes I wonder if Yawì would not be closer, as I was told the ì would sound rather like a Schwa than like an "e" in English/"i" in German.

Of course, writing German, I write Jahwe, but Na’vi has no "j" but uses the y, which is the same sound to German j. I think the h would have been pronounced in Na’vi, but I tend to consider it only a mater lectionis in the Hebrew.

There's also no v in Na’vi, so I think Yawä is pretty close. English mother tunges told me though, they'd rather use "Yawey", which is certainly not how we pronounce it ;)

Ah, I see, you meant why I do not really use "god"? Well, God is a term, not a name. So you have to translate it (maybe something with ekytan) or forget about it. I see no sense in introducing English loan-word into Na’vi, that'd be too cheap, I rather wait for Frommer to tell us the word for god...
Jahwe on the other hand is a name, and need not be translated. We also say Apostle Peter and not Apostle Rock-Man...

Of course there's a "v" in Na'vi. ;D  If there wasn't you could not even say Na'vi in Na'vi. :D ;D :D

Well, that's a good reason. Actually I didn't know that Jahwe was a name. I always thought it was the Hebrew term for God... :P  Well, thanks for your answer. ;D

Did not know that you're German as well. :D Thought you weren't because of the transcription with "w". :) To me it sounded like you would speak a language where written w is pronounced like in Na'vi(English e.g.) ;D
« Last Edit: July 24, 2010, 05:49:46 pm by Pxia Säsngap »
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Offline Tìmuiäyä'itan

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Re: ke has fixed position?
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2010, 05:56:01 pm »
Oh, oe lu skxawng! :D But isn't the Na’vi v more like the English? Hmm, maybe Yavä... The Hebrew Waw is basically pronounced very much like German w, though, not if you listen to Isaelis that were born in the USA...

Jahwe is the name of God, right. There's also a Hebrew term for god: El, or Elohim. Actually El is the name of another god of the Canaanites, but the word got coined as THE term for any god later. Like Zeus is related to deus, which is the Latin term for just any god... even the Christian (and Jewish!) God Yahwe...

Maybe I should just use the short form of the name: Yahu, it's easier...
srungìri ftära tsyokxìl ngeyä
ke ivomum futa pesuru
lu srung skiena tsyokxta ngeyä
ulte Jesus a nerìn ayfo pamlltxe
san sutehu lu keltsun
slä Yawähu frakem tsunslu sìk.

Offline Pxia Säsngap

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Re: ke has fixed position?
« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2010, 06:13:08 am »
Oh, oe lu skxawng! :D But isn't the Na’vi v more like the English? Hmm, maybe Yavä... The Hebrew Waw is basically pronounced very much like German w, though, not if you listen to Isaelis that were born in the USA...

Jahwe is the name of God, right. There's also a Hebrew term for god: El, or Elohim. Actually El is the name of another god of the Canaanites, but the word got coined as THE term for any god later. Like Zeus is related to deus, which is the Latin term for just any god... even the Christian (and Jewish!) God Yahwe...

Maybe I should just use the short form of the name: Yahu, it's easier...

I don't know the difference between English and German v, to be honest... ;D

Yavä is exactly how I'd done it. :D   But yes, it's maybe less confusing to use Yahu. (;D Only thing some people might complain about is that it then sounds like an emailplatform on the internet. ;D :D ;D )

Wow, never heard of the term El(ohim)... :D
« Last Edit: July 25, 2010, 06:14:55 am by Pxia Säsngap »
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Offline Muzer

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Re: ke has fixed position?
« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2010, 06:17:15 am »
Tsavä, off the top of my head, is the word I use for Java.
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Offline Pxia Säsngap

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Re: ke has fixed position?
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2010, 06:18:48 am »
Hrh ma Muzer I thought of yahoo. ;D :D ;D
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Offline Tìmuiäyä'itan

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Re: ke has fixed position?
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2010, 04:55:46 pm »
Yo hardly have a chance to hear about El(ohim) if you don't study Hebrew ;) it's just a Hebrew word...

Difference between German and English v: Hermann Vogel vs Vin Diesel ;) or you mean German w? Try Vin Diesel and Walter von der Vogelweide... ;)

But one could discuss this for hours... ;)
srungìri ftära tsyokxìl ngeyä
ke ivomum futa pesuru
lu srung skiena tsyokxta ngeyä
ulte Jesus a nerìn ayfo pamlltxe
san sutehu lu keltsun
slä Yawähu frakem tsunslu sìk.

Offline Pxia Säsngap

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Re: ke has fixed position?
« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2010, 05:04:00 pm »
Yo hardly have a chance to hear about El(ohim) if you don't study Hebrew ;) it's just a Hebrew word...

Difference between German and English v: Hermann Vogel vs Vin Diesel ;) or you mean German w? Try Vin Diesel and Walter von der Vogelweide... ;)

But one could discuss this for hours... ;)

Totally. :D
I thought of the German v in Vase. ;D :D ;D Because that's the sound we're talking about. :P And the Vogel-v is the English f I guess, right? :D

hrh, and no, I wasn't planning on studying Hebrew at all. :D ;D :D  (Do you?)
Eywa ayngahu
Ma oeyä eylan aynga oeru yawne lu <3 ;D :D ;D

Offline Tìmuiäyä'itan

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Re: ke has fixed position?
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2010, 06:15:07 pm »
Istudy theoloy, so yes, I had Hebrew class :D About Vase, I think it depends where in Germany you are from. In the south we'd pronounce it more or less like w...
srungìri ftära tsyokxìl ngeyä
ke ivomum futa pesuru
lu srung skiena tsyokxta ngeyä
ulte Jesus a nerìn ayfo pamlltxe
san sutehu lu keltsun
slä Yawähu frakem tsunslu sìk.

Offline Pxia Säsngap

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Re: ke has fixed position?
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2010, 04:48:08 am »
Istudy theoloy, so yes, I had Hebrew class :D About Vase, I think it depends where in Germany you are from. In the south we'd pronounce it more or less like w...

Yes, that's what I wanted to say. "V" in Vase is more or less pronounced like "w". :D  So: "w"="v"(in vase)=the "w"-sound in jahwe=leNa'via "v". ;D  So, I'd written Yavä :)

Wow, and what are you planning to do, after your studies? Becoming a priest? My uncle did that and he was lucky to be the only priest in the parish, so that he "has got" his own church and parishioners. :D
Eywa ayngahu
Ma oeyä eylan aynga oeru yawne lu <3 ;D :D ;D

 

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