Author Topic: <iv>  (Read 789 times)

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Offline GEOvanne

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<iv>
« on: August 05, 2010, 10:17:20 am »
I'm going through the na'vi in a nutshell, and now I'm at the iv infix.

I thought I understood how it is used, but now I'm lost again, there are some many ways to use it.

Can someone explain/summarize its use?

Offline Kayrìlien

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Re: <iv>
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2010, 11:04:15 am »
The <iv> infix is a tricky beast, but here are a few of the most common ways it is used:

1. With modal verbs. In sentences such as the following,

Oe new y<iv>om. - I want to eat.
Nga zene k<iv>ä. - You must go.

where there are two verbs used in succession like this, the second one gets the <iv> infix.

2. To make a command more polite. To issue a command in Na'vi, the root form of the verb is used. For example,

Terkup, ma skxawng! - Die, moron!

However, if you want to request something rather than demand it, the verb gets the <iv> infix. (And, for extra politeness, can be accompanied by rutxe.

Rutxe, nga-l oe-ru swizaw-it t<iv>ìng. - Please give me the arrow.

There are other uses as well, but these two are the most common ones. Hope that helps,

Kayrìlien

Offline wm.annis

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Re: <iv>
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2010, 11:15:06 am »
2. To make a command more polite.

You can use ‹iv› in a command, but it doesn't make it more polite.  From the Canon (Feb 15):

Quote from: Frommer
2. Imperatives, either positive or negative, have two forms: either the bare root or the -iv- form. At an earlier point in the history of the language there was probably a polite/familiar distinction (the -iv- form being the politer one), but that's no longer the case. They're used interchangeably. So to say "Go!" you can say either kivä or just kä.

Underlining mine.
'Awa lì'fya ke tam kawkrr.
A Na'vi Reference Grammar

Offline Payä Tìrol

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Re: <iv>
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2010, 11:19:06 am »
Subjunctive? There's probably some distinction, though.
'<iv>ong Na'vi! May Na'vi bloom!

There are verbs like hope/request that often create a clause that uses <iv>.
Oe sìlpey tsnì nga k<iv>ä. I hope that you go.
Oeyä atanìl mì sìvawm, mipa tìreyä tìsìlpeyur yat terìng

Offline wm.annis

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Re: <iv>
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2010, 11:23:53 am »
I have a full list on the wiki: Verb Syntax: The Subjunctive.
'Awa lì'fya ke tam kawkrr.
A Na'vi Reference Grammar

Offline Kayrìlien

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Re: <iv>
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2010, 11:32:54 am »
2. To make a command more polite.

You can use ‹iv› in a command, but it doesn't make it more polite.  From the Canon (Feb 15):

Quote from: Frommer
2. Imperatives, either positive or negative, have two forms: either the bare root or the -iv- form. At an earlier point in the history of the language there was probably a polite/familiar distinction (the -iv- form being the politer one), but that's no longer the case. They're used interchangeably. So to say "Go!" you can say either kivä or just kä.

Underlining mine.

Hey! I learned something too! Irayo, ma Annis!

Kayrìlien

Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: <iv>
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2010, 02:51:34 pm »
It is interesting how common and important <iv> is in Na`vi. Wm Annis or others with more linguistic skill than I have may wish to comment on how much <iv> goes beyond just being a subjunctive mood indicator.

But what I am really beginning to see now s how <iv> affects how a word sounds. After all, Na`vi is a spoken language, and the latinized written form exists mostly so we can learn the language. In many words, <iv> creates a syllable break that wasn't there before and completely changes how the word sounds. It may be, as I gain more experience speaking the language, that this characteristic sound needs to be in words in the situations elucidated here. After a while, the <iv> effect will become an important clue to the meaning of a phrase or sentence that is instantly recognizable.

I am also finding out that other infixes have interesting effects on word pronunciation and sound. I am sure none of this is accidental.

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Tsamsiyu92

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Re: <iv>
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2010, 03:52:18 pm »
The subjunctive is used with txo too.

Example:
Fko livu lekye'ung txo fkol tivaron palulukanit.
One would be crazy if one hunts a palulukan.

Offline wm.annis

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Re: <iv>
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2010, 04:02:03 pm »
Example:
Fko livu lekye'ung txo fkol tivaron palulukanit.
One would be crazy if one hunts a palulukan.

Do you have an example matching this from Frommer?  As far as I know, we've only seen simple future conditions in Na'vi, not hypotheticals like this yet.
'Awa lì'fya ke tam kawkrr.
A Na'vi Reference Grammar

 

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