Author Topic: Need some help with my first translated sentence  (Read 1122 times)

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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Need some help with my first translated sentence
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2010, 03:26:54 pm »
'See' in English is also used in both a literal sense (as discussed here), and a spiritual sense as well. You will often see or hear a psychic (in reality of fiction) say something along the lines of, for instance, (while concentrating).... "I see a boat"... etc. The term see is also used when one is describing the contents of a vision or a dream.

Finally, the term 'eye does not see', used in a spiritual sense could be considered a idiom. We know we don't use the eyes to see things spiritually, but the eye is the part of us that does see. So at least to me anyway, 'eye does not see' works in a spiritual sense. You see 'mind sees', but not nearly as often.

Finally, this statement, made by Jake, although mainly meant spiritually, also has an equally valid literal/physical interpretation, as his avatar had been left behind when everyone fled the hometree area. No Na`vi knew he had been 'reavtivated'. Only his ikran knew. (but that is an animal thing. And perhaps an Eywa thing, as Eywa knew what was going on even if Jake didn't. In that sense, the eye of Eywa WAS seeing.)

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Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: Need some help with my first translated sentence
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2010, 04:18:04 pm »
'See' in English is also used in both a literal sense (as discussed here), and a spiritual sense as well. You will often see or hear a psychic (in reality of fiction) say something along the lines of, for instance, (while concentrating).... "I see a boat"... etc. The term see is also used when one is describing the contents of a vision or a dream.

And they are talking about "picturing in one's mind", "seeing with one's mind eye" or "imagining" depending on your exact view of psychics, none of which are the same as "kame". When one "tse'a", you get an image, which is what the psychic would be describing, when one "kame", one gets a sense of the whole which is not what people (even a psychic) means when they say "I see a boat" (if they meant "kame" they'd usually say "sense").

Finally, the term 'eye does not see', used in a spiritual sense could be considered a idiom. We know we don't use the eyes to see things spiritually, but the eye is the part of us that does see. So at least to me anyway, 'eye does not see' works in a spiritual sense. You see 'mind sees', but not nearly as often.

That reasoning only works when kame is translated as "see". What I'm trying to get across is that kame has no translation and so any reasoning based around kame=see is naively literal. If you look at canonical uses of kame, "greet" is a more appropriate translation (although that would still miss the deeper meaning) in which case using the eye to kame makes no sense, the only reason that we have this quite frankly, ludicrous translation of "kame" in the first place is because Cameron wanted to be self-referential and have a line from titanic as the na'vi's main greeting.

Finally, this statement, made by Jake, although mainly meant spiritually, also has an equally valid literal/physical interpretation, as his avatar had been left behind when everyone fled the hometree area. No Na`vi knew he had been 'reavtivated'. Only his ikran knew. (but that is an animal thing. And perhaps an Eywa thing, as Eywa knew what was going on even if Jake didn't. In that sense, the eye of Eywa WAS seeing.)

There is a difference between a spiritual and metaphorical statement. Jake's line is, in my view at least, primarily metaphorical (although, as you say, it has a valid literal interpretation as well), that said, Jake is talking about metaphorical "tse'a" not metaphorical "kame".
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Offline Kì'eyawn

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Re: Need some help with my first translated sentence
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2010, 04:21:58 pm »
Hmm...  Okay, i'm a fence-sitter now.

I think the issue is because we have kame glossed (courtesy of Cameron) as "See," it's hard to know the extent to which the Na'vi would use tse'a metaphorically.
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Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: Need some help with my first translated sentence
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2010, 03:57:17 am »
Hmm...  Okay, i'm a fence-sitter now.

I think the issue is because we have kame glossed (courtesy of Cameron) as "See," it's hard to know the extent to which the Na'vi would use tse'a metaphorically.

I guess what my point boils down to is that given glosses should be secondary to canonical uses when trying to work out how to use it.
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Offline Kì'eyawn

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Re: Need some help with my first translated sentence
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2010, 08:23:28 am »
Hmm...  Okay, i'm a fence-sitter now.

I think the issue is because we have kame glossed (courtesy of Cameron) as "See," it's hard to know the extent to which the Na'vi would use tse'a metaphorically.

I guess what my point boils down to is that given glosses should be secondary to canonical uses when trying to work out how to use it.

I see your point.  Mllte oe.
eo Eywa oe 'ia

Fra'uri tìyawnur oe täpivìng nìwotx...

 

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