Author Topic: Nature Bats Last - a ? Na'vi Translation  (Read 979 times)

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Offline Zeykoyu Aean

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Nature Bats Last - a ? Na'vi Translation
« on: September 21, 2010, 05:36:32 pm »
Kaltxì ma eylan:

Na'vi is proving a challenging language to "get one's head" around!

One of the blogs I frequent is that of Guy McPherson from the Univ. of Arizona.  The title he's chosen for his blog is 'Nature Bats Last.'

My tentative translation is Eywal uvan si tor.

Thoughts?

Oe irayo si ngaru

Hayalovay ulte Eywa ngahu

Zeykoyu Aean

Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Nature Bats Last - a ? Na'vi Translation
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2010, 01:33:17 am »
The problem with this statement is that it is an idiom. As such, would a typical Na`vi understand what this meant, having never heard it before? Or, would you end up with txuma swizaw kxämla txe`lan?

Yawey ngahu!
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Offline Zeykoyu Aean

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Re: Na'vi expressions and idioms
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2010, 07:31:14 pm »
Kaltxì ma eylan:

Idioms being the difficult things they are in one's own language, I realize the dangers of taking one found on Earth  "into" Na'vi.  However, feeling the way I do, Eywa is a "concept" (for lack of a better term) that I find equivalent to Wakan Tanka of the Lakota Sioux.  This loosely translates as Great Mystery.  It is and was generally acknowledged that Wakan Tanka was the final adjudicator; in other words the Great Mystery had the final "say" or "played the last."

My contemplation on this leads me to: Eywal uvan si tor.

Being as new as I am to Na'vi I am first worried about the grammer.  One should NOT dishonor Eywa with poor grammer.

Oe irayo si ngaru

Hayalovay ulte Eywa ngahu

Zeykoyu Aean

Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: Na'vi expressions and idioms
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2010, 02:00:26 am »
"plays last" is very much an English idiom and so I'd try to find another way of saying it first, possibly "kem si" which ought to be something along the lines of "act" (as in perform an action, not play a part in a play).

In this case you need to drop the -l on Eywa, the -l is only used if a direct object is present, otherwise the unmarked nominative form is used for the subject, and tor has to be made into an adverb using nì.

So I'd say "Eywa kem si nìtor" if you want to keep the "plays" in there, "Eywa uvan si nìtor" would be grammatically correct (although the semantics might not be).
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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Na'vi expressions and idioms
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2010, 03:38:31 pm »
"plays last" is very much an English idiom and so I'd try to find another way of saying it first, possibly "kem si" which ought to be something along the lines of "act" (as in perform an action, not play a part in a play).

In this case you need to drop the -l on Eywa, the -l is only used if a direct object is present, otherwise the unmarked nominative form is used for the subject, and tor has to be made into an adverb using nì.

So I'd say "Eywa kem si nìtor" if you want to keep the "plays" in there, "Eywa uvan si nìtor" would be grammatically correct (although the semantics might not be).

Only problem here is nìtor is a construction of and tor. At this time, is not productive, so use of a construction like nìtor is not advisable. There is another word for 'last', syen that I think is better here, because it means more like 'last in a series'. The feeling you are trying to convey here suggests a series of acts, rather than a single, final act like tor implies. Better yet, there is an attested adverbial form of syen, namely nìsyen. So, you would end up with Eywa kem si nìsyen (I like 'act' better than 'play' here as well.) I can apply this to the Christian faith as well, as Yawey kem si nìsyen, because the Lord definitely has 'the final say' in everything!

Zeykoyu Aean, thank you for moving this idea here, and explaining it better. In the process, you have caused the creation of a very useful little phrase!

Yawey ngahu!
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Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: Na'vi expressions and idioms
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2010, 04:34:11 pm »
"plays last" is very much an English idiom and so I'd try to find another way of saying it first, possibly "kem si" which ought to be something along the lines of "act" (as in perform an action, not play a part in a play).

In this case you need to drop the -l on Eywa, the -l is only used if a direct object is present, otherwise the unmarked nominative form is used for the subject, and tor has to be made into an adverb using nì.

So I'd say "Eywa kem si nìtor" if you want to keep the "plays" in there, "Eywa uvan si nìtor" would be grammatically correct (although the semantics might not be).

Only problem here is nìtor is a construction of and tor. At this time, is not productive

That's not entirely true, nì- isn't generally productive, but is on adjectives such as tor. That said syen would be more appropriate, I'd forgotten that there was more than one "last" in na'vi
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Offline Zeykoyu Aean

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Re: Na'vi expressions and idioms
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2010, 09:21:52 pm »
Kaltxì ma karyu:

My feeling is not an act as a series of acts but as the FINAL act.  I gather that this is what tor refers to, yes?  I do also feel that syen could convey this feeling as well.

Perhaps Eywa kem si nìsyen really would better convey the feeling?  I am a complete skxawng with regards to knowledge of the correct uses of 'nì.'

Eywa ngahu

Zeykoyu Aean

Offline Payä Tìrol

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Re: Na'vi expressions and idioms
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2010, 10:00:21 pm »
Tor is the right "last" for that usage.
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Offline Zeykoyu Aean

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Re: Na'vi expressions and idioms
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2010, 01:50:47 pm »
Tor is the right "last" for that usage.

Kaltxì ma Payä Tìrol:

Perhaps Eywa kem si tor then?


Oe irayo si ngaru

Hayalovay ulte Eywa ngahu

Zeykoyu Aean
Nìrangal oel tslilvam nì’ul


Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: Na'vi expressions and idioms
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2010, 02:05:22 pm »
Remember that it would have to be nì-tor ma zeykoyu because tor is an adjective not adverb.
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Offline Zeykoyu Aean

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Re: Nature Bats Last - a ? Na'vi Translation
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2010, 09:33:35 pm »
Kaltxì ma Haryu:

Tsat lu Eywa kem si nìtor.


Eywa ngahu

Zeykoyu Aean
Eywa kem si nìtor'
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Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: Nature Bats Last - a ? Na'vi Translation
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2010, 02:12:03 am »
ziveyko futa fìtsenget aysngä'iyul a ke tslivam tok ma zeykoyu aean, ralpiveng rutxe.:)
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