Author Topic: New stuff  (Read 839 times)

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Offline MIPP

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New stuff
« on: July 18, 2010, 05:36:35 am »
Hey there,

I've been a while off the site, i guess something like a month, and now that i'm back I found too many threads :S
Can you tell me if there's something new? I've been reading the Na'vi in a nutshell guide, looks like the cases in words that finish in ll or rr take the consonantic case and the ew, aw, ey, ay may take any.
Is there something new that I still don't know?

Thanks :)
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Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: New stuff
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2010, 06:36:28 am »
It depends on when you left.

We've got a lot of new vocab as well as the following which are all vaguely recent (not in any particular order): diminutive forms, inferentials, causatives, reflexives, passive participles, responses to irayo and compliments, congratulations, the -vi suffix. I'm there's other stuff as well.

And diphthong endings aren't as simple as taking either ending. They only take -ìl and -ä, don't take -t or -r and can't take -ìri only -ri. So for the accusative and dative they can do either, just not the short form, for the ergative and genitive they can only take the consonantal form and for the topical they can only take the vowel form.
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Offline MIPP

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Re: New stuff
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2010, 08:28:27 am »
It depends on when you left.

We've got a lot of new vocab as well as the following which are all vaguely recent (not in any particular order): diminutive forms, inferentials, causatives, reflexives, passive participles, responses to irayo and compliments, congratulations, the -vi suffix. I'm there's other stuff as well.

And diphthong endings aren't as simple as taking either ending. They only take -ìl and -ä, don't take -t or -r and can't take -ìri only -ri. So for the accusative and dative they can do either, just not the short form, for the ergative and genitive they can only take the consonantal form and for the topical they can only take the vowel form.

Hi,

could you explain it to me? I 've been reading the Na'vi in a Nutshell Guide, however I still do not understand what you've said, not only the diphtongs endings, but the other things also. And some are not in there, so, i'd be glad if you explained it to me.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 08:31:44 am by MIPP »
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Offline kewnya txamew'itan

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Re: New stuff
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2010, 09:12:07 am »
Some of it (diminutive forms and responses to irayo and compliments and congratulations) are very new so haven't made their way into NiaN yet.

Anyway, I'll do them in a more sensible order this time:

Inferentials: this is a form of the verb when the speaker is inferring that the statement is true but do not have evidence, haven't seen it or something along those lines. Examples in English (helpful clues underlined): "John wasn't at work, he must be ill", "I guess he caught that bug from Jane". This is formed with the affectual position 2 infix <ats> e.g. "John isn't here, he must be hunting" -> "Tson-ìl fìtseng-it ke tok, t<er>ar<ats>on" or "I guess Eytukan said we needed food" -> "Eytukan p<ol>tx<ats>e san awnga-l kin syuve-t"

Causatives: when someone or something causes an action to happen. In English this is "X made Y verb" or "X made Y verb Z" or even "X made Y verb Z to W". This is formed with the pre-first position infix <eyk>, where it gets complicated is case marking. In intransitive verbs, the causer (X in my English examples) takes the ergative whilst the causee (Y in my English examples) takes the accusative as in st<eyk>i po-l oe-ti. In transitive verbs like tspang, the causer takes the ergative, the direct object (Z in my English examples) stays in the accusative and the causee takes the dative as in po-an-ur yerik-it tsp<eyk><ol>ang oe-l. Lastly with ditransitive verbs (like the verb to give) it gets very complicated and we think that the causer takes the ergative, the causee takes either fa or the topical whilst the two objects stay in the same case.

Reflexives: used when an object and the subject are the same person (not just the same grammatical person, they have to actually be the same being), in English this would be shown by "myself"/"yourself"/"himself"/"herself"/"itself" etc. In na'vi this is formed with the pre-first infix <äp>, if it is being used to show that the subject and object are the same person then that noun is spoken once and is in the unmarked nominative case. If it is being used to show that the dative object and subject are the same and there is no accusative (as in a si verb) then the noun is spoken once in the unmarked nominative case. If it is being used to show that the dative object and subject are the same when there is a direct accusative object (which is not attested) then the subject would be expected to take the ergative. Exampels: poan ts<äp><ol>e'a and po-e oe-ru t<äp><am>ìng.

Passive participles: a form of the verb formed with the pre-first infix <awn>, forms an adjective describing the object of the verb, the passive counterpart of <us> which forms an adjective describing the subject of the verb. Examples: <awn>omum, ts<awn>e'a. Like <us> participles, <awn> participles can only ever be used attributively with -a-, never predicatively with a copula verb like lu or slu.

Responses to irayo, compliments and how to congratulate someone are all from Frommer's new blog, naviteri.org, specifically this post (which also explains diminutive forms).

Lastly the -vi suffix is used to denote a smaller part of a larger whole if I remember correctly so atan goes to atan-vi, num-tseng goes to num-tseng-vi, sä-nume goes to sä-num-vi, syay goes to syay-vi, tìkangkem goes to tìkangkem-vi, txep goes to txep-vi and vur goes to vur-vi (those are all the attested examples).

Sìlpey oe tsnì srung s<ilv>i.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 09:14:28 am by kemeoauniaea »
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Offline Muzer

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Re: New stuff
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2010, 09:14:36 am »
Yes they have - version 2.3 of NIAN is out now, with all the latest stuff.
[21:42:56] <@Muzer> Apple products used to be good, if expensive
[21:42:59] <@Muzer> now they are just expensive

Offline MIPP

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Re: New stuff
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2010, 02:10:20 pm »
About the inferentials, i already knew about them :)
The same about causatives (except de di-transtives verbs).
I didn't know those rules about the reflexives :S
I didn't understand this quote from the passive participles:
Quote
Like <us> participles, <awn> participles can only ever be used attributively with -a-, never predicatively with a copula verb like lu or slu.
The -vi suffix, i've already read about it in the NiaN.
Thanks, but could you explain the quote to me?

Irayo!
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Loveless, Act IV.

Offline Carborundum

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Re: New stuff
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2010, 02:21:53 pm »
I didn't understand this quote from the passive participles:
Quote
Like <us> participles, <awn> participles can only ever be used attributively with -a-, never predicatively with a copula verb like lu or slu.
As you may be aware, participles are essentially a type of adjective. Adjectives can generally be used attributively (wina ikran) or predicatively (ikran lu win).
However, participles can only be used attributively. Ikran atswusayon is correct, while *ikran lu tswusayon is incorrect.
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Offline MIPP

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Re: New stuff
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2010, 03:29:42 pm »
I didn't understand this quote from the passive participles:
Quote
Like <us> participles, <awn> participles can only ever be used attributively with -a-, never predicatively with a copula verb like lu or slu.
As you may be aware, participles are essentially a type of adjective. Adjectives can generally be used attributively (wina ikran) or predicatively (ikran lu win).
However, participles can only be used attributively. Ikran atswusayon is correct, while *ikran lu tswusayon is incorrect.

Irayo ma tsmukan.
I have no doubts about that now ;)
Na'vi for beginners | Dict-Na'vi.com

Hufwe lìng io pay, nìfnu slä nìlaw.
Loveless, Act IV.

 

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