Poll

I would suggest the following solution to the struggles which the Beginner Chat Thread is having:

It's fine, but needs to be moved to Intermediate because it's no longer attracting beginners.
2 (15.4%)
It's fine, but needs to be moved to Intermediate because it's no longer attracting beginners.
2 (15.4%)
It needs to be split; one piece in Beginners, and one piece in Intermediate.
9 (69.2%)
It needs more extensive work; see my suggestions below...
0 (0%)
You tried.  You failed.  Move on.
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 10

Author Topic: Pivängkxo Fail - What to do with Beginner Chat Thread  (Read 1147 times)

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Offline Alyara Arati

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Pivängkxo Fail - What to do with Beginner Chat Thread
« on: February 07, 2014, 07:35:14 am »
As some of you may have noticed, the Beginner Chat Thread, Pivängkxo nìNa'vi Ko, has been experiencing some problems.  It is not what was envisioned, or even a modification thereof, but instead has been plagued with grammatical derailments and a general lack of beginner participation.  The question is, what now?
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Offline Eana Unil

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Re: Pivängkxo Fail - What to do with Beginner Chat Thread
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2014, 09:19:10 am »
I wouldn't call it a fail at all. You could split it (which I voted for) or try to bring it back to where it started/how it was supposed to evolve, imho.  :)
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« Last Edit: February 07, 2014, 09:37:40 am by Eana Unil »

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Offline Kamean

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Re: Pivängkxo Fail - What to do with Beginner Chat Thread
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2014, 12:51:29 pm »
You could split it
In my opinion it would be best decision.
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Offline Plumps

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Re: Pivängkxo Fail - What to do with Beginner Chat Thread
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2014, 02:06:07 pm »
Ma Alyara,

it’s not a fail! Don’t you ever think that! Almost a hundred pages can’t be a fail. Most topics don’t survive one page ;)

Offline Tanri

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Re: Pivängkxo Fail - What to do with Beginner Chat Thread
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2014, 02:42:01 pm »
Absolutely!
This is not a fail of the thread itself, if only a few people are interested in it, as well the derailments should be avoided by politeness of those contributing.
Moving or splitting only creates more places to mess with - we already have plenty of threads to use.
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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Pivängkxo Fail - What to do with Beginner Chat Thread
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2014, 04:19:58 pm »
IMHO, It is not a fail at all! Instead, it developed into what it needed to be, and what the community wants. However, it is no langer really a beginner's chat but rather a general/intermediate/advanced chat that includes translations. And it has been very popular, which is prima facie proof of its success of what it has become.

I think this thread should be split off into the intermediate forum and continue there just as it is now. IMHO, it is not possible to do a beginner's thread and carry out the kind of discussions we have been having here. An all-new beginner's thread would be created, with a fresh start. Those of us who are very active here would just need to make sure that we encouraged beginners to post there, and keep the corrective feedback (which is necessary, to encourage good language habits/discourage bad ones) at a level appropriate to beginners. (And the correction should be in English, or a language the beginner is comfortable with). The more advanced stuff would continue in the original thread, as it has been, as that is where WE learn from each other, and where the language grows.

Yes, it is more work to watch two (or three if you count nìNa'vi nì'aw) threads. But it is the only practical way I can see to create a place where beginners can be comfortable trying out the language.

And I see this changing and adjusting until we find something that works consistently!

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Offline Taronyu Leleioae

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Re: Pivängkxo Fail - What to do with Beginner Chat Thread
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2014, 06:15:12 pm »
IMHO, It is not a fail at all! Instead, it developed into what it needed to be, and what the community wants. However, it is no langer really a beginner's chat but rather a general/intermediate/advanced chat that includes translations. And it has been very popular, which is prima facie proof of its success of what it has become.

Looking at this from another angle, this result identified a need that there needs to be an active intermediate sentence chat and/or sentence area where translations and in depth discussions are desired.  Where this went into disarray is that a no pressure, welcoming "sandboxed" area to play in was desired and planned in order to get beginners to try be spontaneous.  And the community "pounced" on it.

I think this very much supports much earlier discussion (from months ago) that the LN community really does need both.  And it's very understandable if the beginner chat thread (re-booted) would be slower.  A warm and fuzzy "safe" area for beginners is still desirable imo.

Thus a split seems to be the right thing to do.

Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Pivängkxo Fail - What to do with Beginner Chat Thread
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2014, 01:48:40 pm »
I don't see that thread as a fail. It simply developed - as 'eylan ayfalulukanä said. When I was beginner, I created some "word football" thread as a game, and in the time game changed into something different, but thread itself was very useful for me, I've learnt much.
I have no good idea how to continue - from some view split looks like good solution, from different view not (intermediate forum has some similar thread, but dead). People gather in the threads which are live - so IMHO they all end in beginner's thread again.
Maybe rules of the thread could be updated to say what kind of discussion is acceptable and what not, but I'm not fan of such update. It looks like some kind of censorship for me...
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Offline Swoka Tsamsiyu

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Re: Pivängkxo Fail - What to do with Beginner Chat Thread
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2014, 05:12:17 pm »
Kaltxì ma Alyara,
No, you haven't failed at all! :D Your idea is excellent and it worked. Until it got derailed despite multiple efforts from various people to keep it in check. I mentioned it before. I do not mind getting corrected, that's how one learns. But I have stated this before too: nìNa'vi nì'aw has migrated to the Beginner's Chat, the moment I dare post something it becomes a race who's correcting first with the most elaborate explanations. It's not a Beginner's Chat anymore. The fact that I was trying to make small talk for the sake of using the language is totally overlooked. It immediately runs off into this linguistical argument (and yes, I DO have linguistical training) and drags on for pages on end. The current atmosphere makes me uncomfortable and feeling inadequate. I'm also the only active beginner (that I know of), and having to speak to advanced members only is no fun. I miss a separate "sandbox" of some sorts in which beginners can ask specific questions about general sentences or help with them. Let the Chat just be that. I don't care if I have to speak about the weather for months, if that helps us beginners form sentences and use the pre/in/affixes and stuff. Also, I would welcome an active Moderator who keeps things in check and stops the continuous derailments. And that the more experienced people respect the Moderator. Repeat offenders may be given a verbal time-out.

Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Pivängkxo Fail - What to do with Beginner Chat Thread
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2014, 05:50:42 pm »
Kaltxì ma AyNumeyu si Ayharyu,

I said to me, that I don't post here....but I do.

I'm a bit dissapointed to see this thread, because this make me feel that the discussion in PM has failed (apparently it is). I will not mentioning too much about it - it should be private. So, regarding the Pivängkxo thread and why this poll was crated: First of all, I voted for a split - however this split will be done... To say that, that thread has failed is just wrong, it has over 90 pages, so it works. But what didn't work was the basic idea of that chat thread. Originally it was created for beginners with textes in Na'vi in beginner level. What happend, it was often transformed to a Tìpängko Kìng 2.0 with english translations, which I have warned about that since the beginning of that thread. And yes, I was also one of those guys who has derailed that thread with grammar questions or posting high-level grammar stuff. I tryed myself to keep that high-level stuff away from that thread, I lost often. Only one time I saw what I did there, PM'd a mod and to ask him to split out that derailment which I did.
I also want to excuse me to all beginners for my apparently trash stuff, pseudo corrections and complicated nìNa'vi nì'aw-like sentences.
Oeru txoa livu fe'a tsakem oeyä.

I do really hope, it will be better for the next time.

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Offline Alyara Arati

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Re: Pivängkxo Fail - What to do with Beginner Chat Thread
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2014, 07:33:20 pm »
I created this thread to open up opinion to people not included in the discussion by PM.  We have much discussion there, but not much agreement on how to solve "the problem", or even what "the problem" is, necessarily. :-\

I would like to "restart" this thread with a modified first post listing rules.  There has been a suggestion to make a new beginners' child board for more active moderation, and I am open to moving this thread to such a child board. :)

Thank you to everyone for responding.  :-*
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Offline Tay'waro

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Re: Pivängkxo Fail - What to do with Beginner Chat Thread
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2014, 02:43:17 pm »
Kaltxì ma frapo.
Swoka said very correctly. That I can endure a lot of criticism about their mistakes , because I welcome any comments. I'm sure the more I error - the more attention is drawn to rule . One must first understand - at what level of the learner . Then recommend it a rule that he should know . If he generally poorly understood , it is necessary to help it in simple words , that he understood . But the explanation must necessarily be in the language spoken by the student .
I already took it all in the beginning. I was very lucky that I have a very good teacher who has patience , intellect and knowledge. Thanks to him, I realized that the key to learning a language is - understand the meaning of the rules.
My opinion - likely need sandbox. But , we need stricter rules for masters to their explanations were as correct.

Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Pivängkxo Fail - What to do with Beginner Chat Thread
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2014, 02:56:45 pm »
I want to mention, that in the PM discussion we actually doing, is also talked about to do some little changes regarding the intermeriate section. The fact, that this current chat thread has reached over 90 pages of posts, shows that such a thread is useful and we are thinking about to creat also a thread in the intermediate section for even intermediate level stuff. Also to make some improvemnts...

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Offline Tay'waro

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Re: Pivängkxo Fail - What to do with Beginner Chat Thread
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2014, 03:14:48 pm »
I think it would be right.

 

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