Author Topic: Question about the genetive  (Read 1394 times)

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Offline Txura Rolyu

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Question about the genetive
« on: September 18, 2011, 10:47:46 pm »
I was learning Na'vi with Txonä Rolyu tonight and he was teaching me about the genetive case and about the placeholder word "pum." He showed me the example sentence "Tsanantang lu pum ngeyä" and said that "pum" is always used as a placeholder for the previously mentioned noun or pronoun. I'm wondering if I could omit "pum" and say "Tsanantang ngeyä lu." Txonä said he's never seen a construction like this and it may not be possible....is it possible?

-Txura Rolyu
« Last Edit: September 18, 2011, 11:05:47 pm by Txura Rolyu »
Neytiri: Now you choose your woman. This you must feel inside. If she also chooses you, move quick like I showed.
Jake: How will I know if she chooses me?
Neytiri: She will try to kill you.
Jake: Outstanding. *takes out an ikran-catcher and walks through hometree looking for women*

Offline Txonä Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì

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Re: Question about the genetive
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2011, 10:50:46 pm »
It's true I haven't. I've always understood it as you have to placehold with "pum" for a sentence like that. Tho I could be wrong? Hmmm.... :-\

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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Question about the genetive
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2011, 10:59:07 pm »
Fìtseng...
lu AWNGEYÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

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Offline Txonä Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì

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Re: Question about the genetive
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2011, 11:04:44 pm »
Fìtseng...
lu AWNGEYÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

Lawlz! Well ok, but....that's a movie quote. Was that approved by Frommer or was it Cameron's doing like Toruk Makto? I'd like something a bit more concrete.

-Txonä Rolyu
« Last Edit: September 18, 2011, 11:08:47 pm by Txonä Te Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì »




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Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: Question about the genetive
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2011, 11:10:26 pm »
Fìtseng...
lu AWNGEYÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

Right! I also think that the use of pum is not necessary here. I think we should use pum only if talk about another thing - another instance of the same thing which now we're talking about. For example:

  Ngeyä kelku lu apxa, ki oeyä pum lu hì'i.
  Your home is big, but mine is small.

Here pum means "another (my) home", because we just was talking about it. But if there is just "that nantang is mine", we don't need to say "that nantang is my nantang", right? That's the same nantang, not another instance of nantang - so we don't need pum :)
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Offline Txonä Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì

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Re: Question about the genetive
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2011, 11:16:48 pm »
Fìtseng...
lu AWNGEYÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

Right! I also think that the use of pum is not necessary here. I think we should use pum only if talk about another thing - another instance of the same thing which now we're talking about. For example:

  Ngeyä kelku lu apxa, ki oeyä pum lu hì'i.
  Your home is big, but mine is small.

Here pum means "another (my) home", because we just was talking about it. But if there is just "that nantang is mine", we don't need to say "that nantang is my nantang", right? That's the same nantang, not another instance of nantang - so we don't need pum :)

Ohhhh! I see what you did there. Alright then :) *Txonä Rolyu makes a note

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Offline Txura Rolyu

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Re: Question about the genetive
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2011, 11:18:07 pm »
*Txura dances in excitement that he made something easier for himself.  ;D
Neytiri: Now you choose your woman. This you must feel inside. If she also chooses you, move quick like I showed.
Jake: How will I know if she chooses me?
Neytiri: She will try to kill you.
Jake: Outstanding. *takes out an ikran-catcher and walks through hometree looking for women*

Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Question about the genetive
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2011, 12:53:04 am »
to be more safe, I'd say:

Fìpo lu nantang  ngeyä

Quote
Ngeyä kelku lu apxa, ki oeyä pum lu hì'i.
I think slä is needed instead of ki; ki is paired with ke, but it is missing.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline Txonä Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì

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Re: Question about the genetive
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2011, 02:26:28 am »
to be more safe, I'd say:

Fìpo lu nantang  ngeyä

But doesn't fìpo refer to people?

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Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Question about the genetive
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2011, 02:39:38 am »
to be more safe, I'd say:

Fìpo lu nantang  ngeyä

But doesn't fìpo refer to people?

-Txonä Rolyu
fìpo is for people and living things, AFAIK
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
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Offline Txura Rolyu

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Re: Question about the genetive
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2011, 11:01:44 am »
"ki" ulte "slä" have hijacked my little thread....  ;D
Neytiri: Now you choose your woman. This you must feel inside. If she also chooses you, move quick like I showed.
Jake: How will I know if she chooses me?
Neytiri: She will try to kill you.
Jake: Outstanding. *takes out an ikran-catcher and walks through hometree looking for women*

Offline Txonä Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì

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Re: Question about the genetive
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2011, 11:15:06 am »
"ki" ulte "slä" have hijacked my little thread....  ;D

Ììììì, you need "sì" here. "Ulte" is for connecting clauses and "sì" is for lists. I.E. I went to the store ulte I bought this that that. I just hijacked it with ulte and sì lol.

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Re: Question about the genetive
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2011, 11:23:45 am »
etiher way, a split might be a good idea.

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Offline Seze Mune

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Re: Question about the genetive
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2011, 09:48:58 pm »
a split what?

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Re: Question about the genetive
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2011, 11:00:00 pm »
Split thread (this thread has previously been split).

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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Question about the genetive
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2011, 08:08:10 am »
Yeah, I think the OP is about pum and pum+genitive, and genitive without pum.

I feel like we heard something in this realm that what Tsu'tey says in the film is okay and not just a hack for the movie (which seems to be the go-to assumption whenever a line from the movie is suggested to be considered canon...) Am I right? I don't remember where if this is the case.

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Offline Txonä Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì

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Re: Question about the genetive
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2011, 12:40:08 pm »
Yeah, I think the OP is about pum and pum+genitive, and genitive without pum.

I feel like we heard something in this realm that what Tsu'tey says in the film is okay and not just a hack for the movie (which seems to be the go-to assumption whenever a line from the movie is suggested to be considered canon...) Am I right? I don't remember where if this is the case.

I don't remember seeing something like that. I wasn't trying to discredit you earlier Tirea, I honestly wasn't sure about that line you quoted, especially since that whole speech translation was all f-ed up to be shortened. I think Paul should come out with a list of stuff from the movie that is canon and stuff that is not.

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Re: Question about the genetive
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2011, 12:49:42 pm »
so far the only thing that was discredited was "tspìmìyang" as far as I am aware.

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Re: Question about the genetive
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2011, 03:15:49 pm »
so far the only thing that was discredited was "tspìmìyang" as far as I am aware.

This word was actually used in the film??  ::)

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Offline Txonä Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì

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Re: Question about the genetive
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2011, 06:58:25 pm »
so far the only thing that was discredited was "tspìmìyang" as far as I am aware.

This word was actually used in the film??  ::)

Yup. "Oel pot tspìmìyang, tsakrr za'u aungia ta Eywa"

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