Author Topic: Resources for those utterly new to grammar? I am looking at the 'downloads'...  (Read 1916 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bristrek

  • Ketuwong
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • Karma: 0
  • Internet ergo sum
So I thought it'd be interesting to learn some Na'vi - I'm not sure I'll ever be fluent in it as languages have always seemed hard to me but it'd be great to know some - but whilst it's interesting reading the intro stuff on the web site, and one of the downloads on grammar I don't understand a lot of the terms used.

I am looking at the downloads section, and it's fantastic.

Problem is, for a lot of us here in the UK when they teach English to us, they don't actually teach grammar. At all. The touched on it at school when they tried to teach us German and I managed a C at GCSE on it but that was a long time ago, I don't remember much and they didn't really go into how grammar works as a separate thing.  My grasp of the basics isn't all that great (I know what a a pre/inter/suffix is but 'predication' is beyond me for example) let alone most of the terms used, with ease.

There's a table of vowels and consonants but I'm not sure what their placement means and... I found a page that you can click on an IPA symbol and it gives you the sound which I imagine will help with that side of things.

But is there a resource where as well as using these terms about grammar it illustrates what those terms mean not just in English but in Na'vi also? Or a list of several different sentences in Na'vi which are then translated into English with notes on the grammar and the terms used?


I've had a brief look through the forum and there doesn't seem to be one, and a lot of people seem to have some clue about how grammar works to start off with.

Hurray for the English education in languages.  :(



Any help would be appreciated. I realise I sound rather pathetic but when it comes to languages, that isn't too far from the truth.


I guess in the mean time, it's a matter of messing around and trying to do stuff practically and being corrected or something and I'll get to that. Still dipping my toes in and getting used to the temperature.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2011, 05:27:45 pm by bristrek »
A socially awkward and linguistically challenged sci-fi geek having a go at learning a fictional language... should be fun.

Level: Right at the start basic beginner.

Offline Key'ìl Nekxetse

  • Taronyu
  • ****
  • Posts: 525
  • Karma: 6
  • Keye'ung!
Re: Resources for those utterly new to grammar?
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2011, 05:26:39 pm »
Don't worry, I've got a reasonable understanding of basic Na'vi grammar with a useless Enlish GCSE and a C in German ???
If you haven't already found it, I (and most others) recommend "Na'vi in a Nutshell", as it covers just about everything without too much linguistic jargon. If you don't get it the first time you read it, try again a bit later, I found some of it quite tricky to get my head round.
Follow the link on the front page: http://www.learnnavi.org/
Good luck!
Key'ìl Nekxetse on "The Revolutionists"
~$ life --help
The program life received signal SIGSEV. Core dumped.

Offline bristrek

  • Ketuwong
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • Karma: 0
  • Internet ergo sum
Re: Resources for those utterly new to grammar?
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2011, 05:33:37 pm »
Don't worry, I've got a reasonable understanding of basic Na'vi grammar with a useless Enlish GCSE and a C in German ???
If you haven't already found it, I (and most others) recommend "Na'vi in a Nutshell", as it covers just about everything without too much linguistic jargon. If you don't get it the first time you read it, try again a bit later, I found some of it quite tricky to get my head round.
Follow the link on the front page: http://www.learnnavi.org/
Good luck!

That does seem to be the easiest of the guides from a brief look. Hadn't spotted that one before, so thanks! Good to know somebody else in my situation has managed to get an understanding of the grammar though.

But looking through that, and yay for them using words like Noun'ing' an examples!

Irayeio
« Last Edit: September 04, 2011, 05:46:31 pm by bristrek »
A socially awkward and linguistically challenged sci-fi geek having a go at learning a fictional language... should be fun.

Level: Right at the start basic beginner.

Offline Txonä Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2190
  • Karma: 23
  • Mowana tsamsiyu aean alu Tsyeyk <3
    • Facebook
Re: Resources for those utterly new to grammar?
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2011, 10:38:12 pm »
Irayeio

....Quick lesson about infixes in Na'vi, they are only for verbs. To have <ei> with "irayo" we need the auxiliary verb "si" and that's where the infix goes :) It looks like "irayo seiyi."

-Txonä Rolyu




AvatarMeet was fantastic. Thanks to all who attended :D

Avatar Nation Karyu :D

Na'vi Kintrrä #70° :D

Keyeyluke ke tsun livu kea tìnusume

Oeri Uniltìrantokxìl txe'lanit nì'aw takeiuk nì'ul txa' fralo

Fpìl na Na'vi. Plltxe na Na'vi. Tìran na Na'vi. Kame na Na'vi

Offline Sherilyn

  • Tawtute
  • *
  • Posts: 87
  • Karma: 2
Kaltxi Palulukan's book The Easiest Way to Learn Na'vi-EVER!! is very helpful.  You can download it for free from these forums, or purchase it online (I just got my copies through amazon.com).  It's about 100 pages to download, so you may wish to purchase for less than $4.00.  Whichever's more cost effective for you.

I wish I had found it earlier in the summer as I've been teaching my 2 children Na'vi for a few months now. They wanted to learn it.  Son has previously taught himself Mandarin Chinese, daughter has no previous experience learning a language. I can say, since getting the books, progress has been MUCH quicker and easier, more fun too!   :)

Download link here:  http://forum.learnnavi.org/learning-resources/easy-way-to-learn-navi-activity-book!/

Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4757
  • us United States
  • Karma: 44
  • Palulukan alu Kenya 06/23/1996 - 01/15/2017
    • The Lionlamb website
For the linguistic terminology, check this some what dated, but still  useful document:

http://www.learnnavi.org/docs/Linguistic-terminology-crash-course.pdf

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro eylan.falulukana@gmail.com

Offline bristrek

  • Ketuwong
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • Karma: 0
  • Internet ergo sum
Looks interesting, that workbook seems to use memorisation of words a lot without using them together which isn't my strong point but interesting, and loving the Na'vi for beginners for grammar.

In any case, might as well start trying to construct sentences cause that's how I learn...


I was going to try and say 'The dire-horse ate my homework' but there doesn't appear to be a word for homework. tiumuse puk would be 'learning book' then right? the ti- <us> combo is what the Nutshell says does the verb-ing thing. I'm assuming that remains two words?

The dire-horse ate my learning book
Pa'lil yalmom timuse pukit oeyä


I get that there isn't really a word for 'a' or 'the', and the 'ate' and 'my' thing I have no idea if I got right. Yom seems to be 'eat' and 'alm' seems to be the infix for 'did it in the past and it's a unit and done' type thing right? But it looks odd. Oeyä I got from the Nutsell towards the bottom in 9.12 when they right 'Oeyä tsmuke alu Neytiri lu kanu' and I know that Oe is 'I, me' and they used Ngeyä as what looks like 'your' when nga means 'you' I think (though I'm not sure why it isn't then ngayä) so it was a guess.

Ummm, I may have gotten that all wrong.   ???

And I suppose that could also be written, assuming the above is even correct, as 'timuse pukit oeyä Pa'lil yalmom'? Though is it just me being English assuming that it'd have to remain 'Pa'lil yalmom' and 'timuse pukit'?



« Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 10:12:26 am by bristrek »
A socially awkward and linguistically challenged sci-fi geek having a go at learning a fictional language... should be fun.

Level: Right at the start basic beginner.

Offline Key'ìl Nekxetse

  • Taronyu
  • ****
  • Posts: 525
  • Karma: 6
  • Keye'ung!
I think that's fairly close, but I'm not sure how you got to timuse :-\
I'm not sure what the best way to say "homework" is, I think I would say "tìkangkem lekelku".
You seem to have the right idea about infixes, but my understanding of "alm" is "had eaten", whereas you probably want the meaning "ate" so I believe you want "ol", so "yolom".
As far as I know, those are the only mistakes, but I wouldn't be surprised if my changes are corrected too ;)

I think I would say: "Y<ol>om nantang-ìl tì-kangkem le-kelku oe-yä" :D

Roll on corrections from people who know Na'vi much better than me! ;D
Key'ìl Nekxetse on "The Revolutionists"
~$ life --help
The program life received signal SIGSEV. Core dumped.

Offline Kemaweyan

  • Eywatsyìp
  • ******
  • *
  • Posts: 14675
  • ua Ukraine
  • Karma: 240
  • Swirä letxon
I think I would say: "Y<ol>om nantang-ìl tì-kangkem le-kelku oe-yä" :D

tìkangkemit ;)
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Offline Tirea Aean

  • The Blue One
  • Olo'eyktan Anawm
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 9903
  • nv Eywa'eveng
  • Karma: 243
  • Oeri ran lu srung
    • Tirea Aean
I am actually working on a new document on my free time to supplement Horen Lì'fyayä leNa'vi by wm.annis. it will be an informal "dictionary" for the nonlinguist so anyone cas understand and use those documents to learn na'vi much easier.

Sorry, I spoiled the surprise.
* Tirea Aean slips away swiftly into the shadows

kelku ikranä a hawnventi yom podcast (na'vi-only): https://tirearadio.com/podcast
Learn Na'vi Discord Chat: https://discord.gg/WF6qcmv

Offline Key'ìl Nekxetse

  • Taronyu
  • ****
  • Posts: 525
  • Karma: 6
  • Keye'ung!
Oh wiya! That was a silly mistake, the version on my whiteboard is correct though :P

Ma Tirea, that sounds like a good idea; Horen Lì'fyayä leNa'vi seems to go into much more detail than Na'vi in a Nutshell, but most of the linguistic jargon is beyond me!
I get the feeling that there are some subtleties that I'm missing out on.
Key'ìl Nekxetse on "The Revolutionists"
~$ life --help
The program life received signal SIGSEV. Core dumped.

Offline wm.annis

  • Olo'eyktan Anawm
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3074
  • Karma: 143
  • Translate the meaning, not the words!
Ma Tirea, that sounds like a good idea; Horen Lì'fyayä leNa'vi seems to go into much more detail than Na'vi in a Nutshell, but most of the linguistic jargon is beyond me!
I get the feeling that there are some subtleties that I'm missing out on.

Well, the HLlN is my way of keeping track of everything we know for sure about the Na'vi language, apart from vocabulary.    So, it's not really a document for beginners to learn from, though I think intermediate to advanced students can certainly learn things from it.

It writing it I make two assumptions —

1) Everyone on LN.org is of above-average intelligence, and can, with time, figure out the HLlN. :)
2) That anyone who has questions about this or that section will ask, and I or some other knowledgeable person will answer them.
'Awa lì'fya ke tam kawkrr.
A Na'vi Reference Grammar

Offline Key'ìl Nekxetse

  • Taronyu
  • ****
  • Posts: 525
  • Karma: 6
  • Keye'ung!
It's certainly a great resource, and I thank you for making it available. :)
At the same time, a more accessible document would make life easier. So much to do, so little time... :-\
Key'ìl Nekxetse on "The Revolutionists"
~$ life --help
The program life received signal SIGSEV. Core dumped.

Offline bristrek

  • Ketuwong
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • Karma: 0
  • Internet ergo sum
Looking back on it, I'm not sure how I got timuse either... probably got some things muddled up.

I figured learning book was the best thing I could think of given homework is often done in some sort of class work book. Learn is nume so the ti- and <us> thing out to be applied to that. Tinusume? Tinusume puk?
A socially awkward and linguistically challenged sci-fi geek having a go at learning a fictional language... should be fun.

Level: Right at the start basic beginner.

Offline Key'ìl Nekxetse

  • Taronyu
  • ****
  • Posts: 525
  • Karma: 6
  • Keye'ung!
Now I see where you were coming from. ;)
I thought about the meaning of a construction like that for a while, and I'm not sure if it means "book for learning" or "book that learns" or perhaps both. :-\
Can someone with a better understanding clarify please?
Key'ìl Nekxetse on "The Revolutionists"
~$ life --help
The program life received signal SIGSEV. Core dumped.

Offline 'Oma Tirea

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 3874
  • Karma: 50
  • Na'vi... sleru... rusti...
Now I see where you were coming from. ;)
I thought about the meaning of a construction like that for a while, and I'm not sure if it means "book for learning" or "book that learns" or perhaps both. :-\
Can someone with a better understanding clarify please?

puk anusume would be a learning book, i.e. a book that learns.  You were more precisely opting for tìnusumeyä puk, but I'm not sure that's allowable....

[img]http://swokaikran.skxawng.lu/sigbar/nwotd.php?p=2b[/img]

ÌTXTSTXRR!!

Srake serar le'Ìnglìsìa lì'fyayä aylì'ut?  Nari si älofoniru rutxe!!

Offline Lance R. Casey

  • Ikran Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 948
  • se Sweden
  • Karma: 57
  • Man cenuva métim' andúnë?
Other words applicable to the issue are fpi and sänume.

Learn is nume so the ti- and <us> thing out to be applied to that. Tinusume? Tinusume puk?

Be careful with the accents -- i and ì represent different phonemes, and the nominalizing prefix is tì-.

// Lance R. Casey

Offline bristrek

  • Ketuwong
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • Karma: 0
  • Internet ergo sum
Other words applicable to the issue are fpi and sänume.

Learn is nume so the ti- and <us> thing out to be applied to that. Tinusume? Tinusume puk?

Be careful with the accents -- i and ì represent different phonemes, and the nominalizing prefix is tì-.

Sorry, I'm still getting used to them, the ä thing is easier cause I'm at least partially used to that from German classes years back but the ì thing not so much but I'll try.

So it'd be puk sänume instead then? Book through which you learn? Someone brought up work order above, so do you have to have the object followed by adjective in that order?
A socially awkward and linguistically challenged sci-fi geek having a go at learning a fictional language... should be fun.

Level: Right at the start basic beginner.

Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4757
  • us United States
  • Karma: 44
  • Palulukan alu Kenya 06/23/1996 - 01/15/2017
    • The Lionlamb website
I see how you came up now, with tìmuse. I would have just used the straight active participle here: numuse with -a- to get numusea puk, as the participle makes the verb into an adjective. I also agree that <ol> is the more customary infix, as <ol> tends to imply <am> as well. But other than these two things, awful good (to use an idiom!) try!

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro eylan.falulukana@gmail.com

Offline Tirea Aean

  • The Blue One
  • Olo'eyktan Anawm
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 9903
  • nv Eywa'eveng
  • Karma: 243
  • Oeri ran lu srung
    • Tirea Aean
I see how you came up now, with tìmuse. I would have just used the straight active participle here: numuse with -a- to get numusea puk, as the participle makes the verb into an adjective. I also agree that <ol> is the more customary infix, as <ol> tends to imply <am> as well. But other than these two things, awful good (to use an idiom!) try!

puk anusume would be a learning book, i.e. a book that learns.  You were more precisely opting for tìnusumeyä puk, but I'm not sure that's allowable....



kelku ikranä a hawnventi yom podcast (na'vi-only): https://tirearadio.com/podcast
Learn Na'vi Discord Chat: https://discord.gg/WF6qcmv

 

Become LearnNavi's friend on Facebook Follow LearnNavi on Twitter! Watch LearnNavi's videos on YouTube

SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy
| XHTML | RSS | WAP2 | Site Rules

LearnNavi is not affiliated with the official Avatar website,
James Cameron, LightStorm Entertainment or The Walt Disney Company.
All trademarks and servicemarks are the properties of their respective owners.
Images in the LearnNavi.org Forums and Gallery may not be used without permission.

LearnNavi Affiliates:
ToS

LearnNavi is the community to learn Na'vi, the Avatar Language
"A place where real friendships are made." -Paul Frommer

AvatarMeet | Learn Na'vi Forum | Learn Na'vi Wiki | Na'viteri

LearnNavi