Author Topic: Transliteration of ì & ä  (Read 4486 times)

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Offline Kame Ayyo’koti

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Alternative spellings for special Na’vi characters?
« Reply #40 on: June 22, 2014, 08:57:04 pm »
Windows and Minecraft sometimes have problems displaying Na’vi's special characters, so I've thought, could we develop a special alternative official spelling for Na’vi's special characters? For example, Germans can spell ä as ae. This would be useful for writing in programs that don't support the special characters, and for users who have no way to type them.

I've been using "ih" for ì; maybe "ah" for ä?

ì| ih
ä| ah

Examples:
tìhawl| tihhawl
sätaron| sahtaron
fwäkì| fwahkih

The hs might be confusing in some contexts, but I think as long as the reader understands words well enough, it should be apparent what they are.
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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Alternative spellings for special Na’vi characters?
« Reply #41 on: June 22, 2014, 09:00:26 pm »
I've used these before:

ii, aa

i*, a*

`i, :a

ih, ah

ix, ax

I kinda like any of these. I think the best however is probably i* and a* since there is no ambiguity at all. Only problem is if your system is only accepting [a-zA-Z0-9]

EDIT: There's also the idea that you can just use i,a (no accents altogether). If you were good with words, and had no way of typing Unicode, then excluding accents would be fine. But this is probably only good idea for advanced speakers of the language. Certain words have their fundamental differences resting on the accent. For example mi vs. mì  and si vs. sì.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 09:08:37 pm by Tirea Aean »

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Offline Kame Ayyo’koti

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Re: Alternative spellings for special Na’vi characters?
« Reply #42 on: June 22, 2014, 09:14:05 pm »
Ohh, yours are much better, Tirea. I think these are a lot less ambiguous, and the last one could be used for [a-zA-Z0-9]:

i*, a*
`i, :a
ix ax

fwa*ki*
fw:ak`i
fwaxkix

They might look strange, but you gotta do what works and I could get used to it. Maybe it'll make the language look even more esoteric. :P
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Offline Kame Ayyo’koti

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Re: Alternative spellings for special Na’vi characters?
« Reply #43 on: June 22, 2014, 09:16:35 pm »
There's also the idea that you can just use i,a (no accents altogether). If you were good with words, and had no way of typing Unicode, then excluding accents would be fine. But this is probably only good idea for advanced speakers of the language. Certain words have their fundamental differences resting on the accent. For example mi vs. mì  and si vs. sì.

They could be mixed. We could omit special spellings where the meaning should be obvious, and use them were it isn't. So si*/s`i/six for sì, mi*/m`i/mix for mì.
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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Alternative spellings for special Na’vi characters?
« Reply #44 on: June 22, 2014, 09:19:43 pm »
Ohh, yours are much better, Tirea. I think these are a lot less ambiguous, and the last one could be used for [a-zA-Z0-9]:

:D Tstunwi!

six as sì for me would take a little getting used to. :P ;D I like this, I guess: Omit where obvious, use best version (least ambiguous) otherwise. I'd say six as sì would have to be reserved for dire situations such as [a-zA-Z0-9]. I think I much prefer `i, :a and i*, a* if possible. EDIT: although `i might have some confusion in some fonts. ` and ' are similar..

DOUBLE EDIT: So therefore I propose this system:

UTF-8 possible: ì = ì, ä = ä (goes without saying.)
ALL of ASCII: ì = i*, ä = a*, omit * when redundant because of obviousness
[a-zA-Z0-9]: ì = ix, ä = ax, omit x when redundant because of obviousness
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 09:28:29 pm by Tirea Aean »

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Offline Kame Ayyo’koti

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Re: Alternative spellings for special Na’vi characters?
« Reply #45 on: June 22, 2014, 10:01:50 pm »
So therefore I propose this system:

UTF-8 possible: ì = ì, ä = ä (goes without saying.)
ALL of ASCII: ì = i*, ä = a*, omit * when redundant because of obviousness
[a-zA-Z0-9]: ì = ix, ä = ax, omit x when redundant because of obviousness

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Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Alternative spellings for special Na’vi characters?
« Reply #46 on: June 22, 2014, 11:33:03 pm »
Eltur tìtxen si! :)

Windows (also Android tablets and phones) usually have no problem with special signs. :-\ (my phone also have the letters ì and ä)
As for games, well, it depends how the developer created the game. In the year 2014 usually every game developer should be able to use UTF-8...

I had onece the idea just to use numbers:

ì = 1
ä = 4

Kaltx1
s4omum

 :)

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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Alternative spellings for special Na’vi characters?
« Reply #47 on: June 23, 2014, 12:54:31 am »
K. Pawl apparently had an 'engineering shorthand' for some of the sounds, especially the digraphs /ts/ and /ng/. It never caught on, and that might be a blessing in disguise. Did he ever have anything for ä and ì?

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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Alternative spellings for special Na’vi characters?
« Reply #48 on: June 23, 2014, 06:10:10 am »
I don't recall pawl having anything for ì and ä. ì and ä themselves were chosen to differentiate the two different a sounds and i sounds to avoid the issue English has.

Holy crud Tìtstewan  1 and 4... That's gold. :o

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Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Alternative spellings for special Na’vi characters?
« Reply #49 on: June 23, 2014, 06:19:20 am »
Irayo n1txan, ma Tirea. Oel fp1l futa fko tsun sivar tsas4fp1lit, kefyak? Kawtu zene pamrel ke sivi tsapamrelviru hu "x". ;D
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 07:40:05 am by Tìtstewan »

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Re: Alternative spellings for special Na’vi characters?
« Reply #50 on: June 23, 2014, 06:26:16 am »
Kawtu pamrel ke si pamrelvit indeed ;)

OK I really really like 1 and 4. More than i* a* ix ax. Maybe because I'm a computer geek but it makes sense. 1 kinda looks like an ì in some way and 4 looks like A. But they're regular numbers.

I think my new vote is on: ì=1, ä=4 for all times when Unicode is not possible.

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Re: Alternative spellings for special Na’vi characters?
« Reply #51 on: June 23, 2014, 06:33:32 am »
Kawtu pamrel ke si pamrelvit indeed ;)
Been fixed faster than the edit note appeared ok second edit. ;D

Yeah, I think 1 = ì and 4 = ä is easy to remember in cases when UTF isn't possible, also it is short. :)
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 07:25:57 am by Tìtstewan »

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Offline Wllìm

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Re: Alternative spellings for special Na’vi characters?
« Reply #52 on: June 23, 2014, 07:16:18 am »
11111111... oel fp1l futa f1s4fp1l lu s1ltsan ;D
Although it does not really improve readability :P

I thought si is intransitive? Doesn't it need a dative? Or doesn't it work that way with pamrel si? ???
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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Alternative spellings for special Na’vi characters?
« Reply #53 on: June 23, 2014, 07:20:07 am »
11111111... oel fp1l futa f1s4fp1l lu s1ltsan ;D
Although it does not really improve readability :P

Its better than other digraphs for readability, imo

Quote

Exactly. He made the error of using -t with a si verb. But quickly edited it

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Offline Wllìm

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Re: Alternative spellings for special Na’vi characters?
« Reply #54 on: June 23, 2014, 07:29:30 am »
Its better than other digraphs for readability, imo
Agreed. I just hope that there will be a time when all systems understand UTF-8 :(

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Re: Alternative spellings for special Na’vi characters?
« Reply #55 on: June 23, 2014, 07:30:18 am »
Adpositions destroy the cases! :)

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Re: Alternative spellings for special Na’vi characters?
« Reply #56 on: June 23, 2014, 07:35:48 am »

I can't believe that we are even having this conversation about what to do when utf8 is impossible when it's 2014 (come on, developers.)
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 07:39:16 am by Tirea Aean »

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Re: Alternative spellings for special Na’vi characters?
« Reply #57 on: June 23, 2014, 07:45:24 am »

I can't believe that we are even having this conversation about what to do when utf8 is impossible when it's 2014 (come on, developers.)
I can't believe that too.
But there are many old systems which don't support UTF-8 or their system communication is restrictive...

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Re: Alternative spellings for special Na’vi characters?
« Reply #58 on: June 23, 2014, 07:48:16 am »

Hmm. I guess that makes sense.

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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Alternative spellings for special Na’vi characters?
« Reply #59 on: June 23, 2014, 03:08:50 pm »
Serar 1 = ì sì 4 = ä a lu sunu oeru nìteng! Awnga sweylu f1s4fp1l a ngeykop ha!

But I agree with Tirea Aean. Everything should use unicode today.

But here's one system that this idea works great with, than most will probably recognize, and that is Baudot. This is the system used with the old teletypes. And although teletype is not used much commercially, the amateur radio service still uses it a fair amount. It is simple, reliable, and one can make those old teletype terminals actually do something useful (If you have one. Otherwise, there are numerous computer programs or devices that will encode/decode baudot).

I'll admit though, this does take a little bit of getting used to, to read. No worse than Klingon though, which uses upper and lower case letters to distinguish certain sounds.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 03:18:15 pm by `Eylan Ayfalulukanä »

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