Trying some sentences

[Ftxavanga Txe′lan]

Kaltxì ma smuktu,

Today I made my second attempt ever in writing some Na'vi sentences. I've tried inventing ones that are not too easy in order to be able to practice as many elements that I know as possible. But still, they're pretty basic.

Would you be so kind as to correct them, so that I can learn from my mistakes? I'm sure there will be a lot of corrections to do, but well.. I'm not afraid of that. I know nobody here will laugh at me anyway. =D

He has eaten the worm. (and he's happy about it)
Poan<ìl> y<ol><ei>om teylu<ti>.
(I really wasn't sure about the -an after po, but since I wanted to precise the gender I thought it might be necessary. I don't know if I did the right thing, though!)

My sister's friend wants to be beautiful.
Oeyä tsmukeyä 'eylan<ìl> new futa l<iv>u lor.
(In this case, I completely improvised with the possessive forms at the beginning cause I didn't really know how to handle "double possession".)

The Prolemuris' ears had hurt. (and this is bad)
Syaksyukä memikyun<ìl> <alm>tìs<äng>raw si.
(There, I was unsure about the position of the infixes in tìsraw si.)

Thank you very much in advance!

[Tirea Aean]

Looks good.

Lor is not for people, perhaps sevin is more appropriate.



The Prolemuris' ears had hurt. (and this is bad)Syaksyukä memikyun tìsraw solängi.

Infixes go in si for si verbs. because si is the actual verb there.

[Ftxavanga Txe′lan]

Okay, great! Irayo ma Tirea

I'm just wondering: you wrote s<ol><äng>i, is <ol> the actual correct infix instead of <alm>?

[Tirea Aean]

Well alm is a valid infix.

It is a combination of the past tense and perfective aspect. Something has been done, in the past.

Paul has said that one can get by fine without using these blends. He said that if you have established context in your conversation, tense is optional and almost always dropped. He says people tend to over use infixes.that said, they exist pretty much to be very specific or be the means of establishing context. Like if you were tellin a story and you put the time and place in the first sentence, you don't need any infixes except iv, until you change the time or aspect.

[Txonä Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì]

Well alm is a valid infix.

It is a comnination of the past tense and perfective aspect. Something has been done, in the past.
Paul has that one can get by fine without using these blends. He said that if you have established context in your conversation, tense is optional and almost always dropped. He says people tend to over use infixes.that said, they exist pretty much to be very specific or be the means of establishing context. Like if you were tellin a story and you put the time and place in the first sentence, you don't need any infixes except iv, until you change the time or aspect.

I've been wondering about that too. I'm also guilty of over-using infixes. Gotta break that. I guess it just seems weird if I use, for example, <am> in one verb then nothing in the next, which I think comes from English where everything has to be in the same context.

-Txonä Rolyu

[Tirea Aean]

He has eaten the worm. (and he's happy about it)
Poan<ìl> y<ol><ei>om teylu<ti>.

what you wrote here is correct. only if there reallly is a need to specify gender.

My sister's friend wants to be beautiful.
Oeyä tsmukeyä 'eylan<ìl> new futa l<iv>u lor.

what you wrote here concerning the "double possessive" is correct. it works much like English. its either:

A's B's C's D's E, or the E of the D of the C of the B of the A. it has to be in the correct order either one way or the other as far as i understand... hope this makes sense.
I did only point out that lor is generally for objects, scenery etc, and sevin might be a better word, and for males, generally sayrìp

The Prolemuris' ears had hurt. (and this is bad)
Syaksyukä memikyun<ìl> <alm>tìs<äng>raw si.

i believe you were correct to want to put alm there. so then it becomes

Syaksyuk-ä memikyun tìsraw s<alm><äng>i.
The Prolemuris' ears had hurt. (and this is bad)

another point here is to not use -l or -t with si verbs. they are intransitive by nature.

solid attempts. cheers.

--TA

[Carborundum]

When talking about body parts, which are inalienable possessions, it is preferable (but not necessary) to use the topical case rather than the genitive.

Syaksyuk-ìri memikyun tìsraw s<alm><äng>i

[MIPP]

My sister's friend wants to be beautiful.
Oeyä tsmukeyä 'eylan<ìl> new futa l<iv>u lor.
(In this case, I completely improvised with the possessive forms at the beginning cause I didn't really know how to handle "double possession".)

Shouldn't it be: Oeyä tsmukeyä 'eylan new livu sevin? I don't think "futa" is needed there...

['Oma Tirea]

My sister's friend wants to be beautiful.
Oeyä tsmukeyä 'eylan<ìl> new futa l<iv>u lor.
(In this case, I completely improvised with the possessive forms at the beginning cause I didn't really know how to handle "double possession".)

Shouldn't it be: Oeyä tsmukeyä 'eylan new livu sevin? I don't think "futa" is needed there...

Except "new" is transitive, even if "lu" isn't, so it's required

[Carborundum]

My sister's friend wants to be beautiful.
Oeyä tsmukeyä 'eylan<ìl> new futa l<iv>u lor.
(In this case, I completely improvised with the possessive forms at the beginning cause I didn't really know how to handle "double possession".)

Shouldn't it be: Oeyä tsmukeyä 'eylan new livu sevin? I don't think "futa" is needed there...

Except "new" is transitive, even if "lu" isn't, so it's required

No, it isn't required. New is modal, and can be used with or without a direct object. Both forms are correct.

['Oma Tirea]

My sister's friend wants to be beautiful.
Oeyä tsmukeyä 'eylan<ìl> new futa l<iv>u lor.
(In this case, I completely improvised with the possessive forms at the beginning cause I didn't really know how to handle "double possession".)

Shouldn't it be: Oeyä tsmukeyä 'eylan new livu sevin? I don't think "futa" is needed there...

Except "new" is transitive, even if "lu" isn't, so it's required

No, it isn't required. New is modal, and can be used with or without a direct object. Both forms are correct.

Sran, oeyä kxeyey...

Though I saw an agentive case marking on there for a sec

[MIPP]

My sister's friend wants to be beautiful.
Oeyä tsmukeyä 'eylan<ìl> new futa l<iv>u lor.
(In this case, I completely improvised with the possessive forms at the beginning cause I didn't really know how to handle "double possession".)

Shouldn't it be: Oeyä tsmukeyä 'eylan new livu sevin? I don't think "futa" is needed there...

Except "new" is transitive, even if "lu" isn't, so it's required

No, it isn't required. New is modal, and can be used with or without a direct object. Both forms are correct.

Sran, oeyä kxeyey...

Though I saw an agentive case marking on there for a sec

That is because you are damned fast. I've just copied and pasted the message in the first post and changed lor and futa. Then I noticed there was a agentive marker and I edited my comment to remove it 

[Yayo]

Teylu is Beetle Larve.
If you wanted to say worm, you should use Ngawng

[Ftxavanga Txe′lan]

Paul has said that one can get by fine without using these blends. He said that if you have established context in your conversation, tense is optional and almost always dropped. He says people tend to over use infixes.that said, they exist pretty much to be very specific or be the means of establishing context. Like if you were tellin a story and you put the time and place in the first sentence, you don't need any infixes except iv, until you change the time or aspect.

Very interesting and good to know. I'll be careful with the over-use of infixes next time, then.

another point here is to not use -l or -t with si verbs. they are intransitive by nature.

I'm not sure to know fully what an intransitive verb is. Can they actually take dative objects, and not accusative? Then I guess it would make sense according to your explanation. But then, why didn't I have to use verb suffixes at all in Syaksyuk-ä memikyun tìsraw s<alm><äng>i? I didn't use any, but now I'm not sure why. xD

Except "new" is transitive, even if "lu" isn't, so it's required

So this means that "futa" is required with all transitive verbs? I had only used it because they put it in examples with modal verbs (in NiaN) - I didn't learn more about "futa" and its uses, though.

Teylu is Beetle Larve.
If you wanted to say worm, you should use Ngawng

I hadn't noticed that at all! Thank you.

[MIPP]

Paul has said that one can get by fine without using these blends. He said that if you have established context in your conversation, tense is optional and almost always dropped. He says people tend to over use infixes.that said, they exist pretty much to be very specific or be the means of establishing context. Like if you were tellin a story and you put the time and place in the first sentence, you don't need any infixes except iv, until you change the time or aspect.

Very interesting and good to know. I'll be careful with the over-use of infixes next time, then.

another point here is to not use -l or -t with si verbs. they are intransitive by nature.

I'm not sure to know fully what an intransitive verb is. Can they actually take dative objects, and not accusative? Then I guess it would make sense according to your explanation. But then, why didn't I have to use verb suffixes at all in Syaksyuk-ä memikyun tìsraw s<alm><äng>i? I didn't use any, but now I'm not sure why. xD

Except "new" is transitive, even if "lu" isn't, so it's required

So this means that "futa" is required with all transitive verbs? I had only used it because they put it in examples with modal verbs (in NiaN) - I didn't learn more about "futa" and its uses, though.

Teylu is Beetle Larve.
If you wanted to say worm, you should use Ngawng

I hadn't noticed that at all! Thank you.

Futa is used to introduce the direct object of a transitive verb and it literally means "that". So, you will only use it when you need to say "that".

E.g.
Oe omum futa nga lu skxawng - I know that you are a morron.
New oe futa nga za'u - I want that you come (I want you to come)

Besides futa, there are other subordinators like that.
Until know, I think we know: furia; fula; fwa; futa; tsnì.

I will try to explain when do you use them.

Furia - Fì'uri + a. Meaning: As for the fact that/As for this that.

E.g. Furia nga poleng oer, fpìl oel futa nga lu eyawr - As for this that you told me, I think that you are correct.


Fula - Fì'ul + a. Meaning: The fact that/The thing that.

E.g. Fula oe yawne lu ngar sunu oer - The fact that I am beloved to you pleases me.


Fwa - Fì'u + a. Meaning: That

E.g. Prrte' lu oeru fwa oe plltxe ngahu - It is great that I speak with him. - You must use fwa and not futa because "lu" is an intransitive verb.

Futa - Fì'ut + a. Meaning: That

E.g. Oel omum futa nga skxawng lu - I know that you are a morron. - You must use futa as "omum" is a transitive verb. As futa means "Fì'ut a", and "fì'ut" has the patientive marker, you need to put the agentive marker in the subject.

Tsnì - Meaning: That

E.g. Sìlpey oe tsnì nga ke livu skxawng - I hope that you are not a morron. - With the verbs "sìlpey" and "ätxäle si" you can't use futa nor fwa, but tsnì. The verb in clause introduced by tsnì always take the <iv> infix.


Read more about it here: http://forum.learnnavi.org/syntax-grammar/futa-or-fwa-tsni/.

[Ftxavanga Txe′lan]

This is really helpful, ma MIPP. Thank you very much.

[MIPP]

This is really helpful, ma MIPP. Thank you very much.

Kea tìkin. As always, if you find any mistake, please let me know.

[Tirea Aean]

Futa is used to introduce the direct object of a transitive verb and it literally means "that". So, you will only use it when you need to say "that".

E.g.
Oel omum futa nga lu skxawng - I know that you are a morron.
New oel futa nga za'u - I want that you come (I want you to come)

Besides futa, there are other subordinators like that.
Until now, I think we know: furia; fula; fwa; futa; tsnì.(and tsaria, tsala, tsawa, tsata)

I will try to explain when do you use them.

Furia - Fì'uri + a. Meaning: As for the fact that/As for this that.

E.g. Furia nga poleng oer, fpìl oel futa ngaru tìyawr - As for this that you told me, I think that you are correct.


Fula - Fì'ul + a. Meaning: The fact that/The thing that.

E.g. Fula oe yawne lu ngar sunu oer - The fact that I am beloved to you pleases me.
E.g. Fula nga lu fìtxan yaymak oeti steyki. (notice that -l and -t form a pair...thats the whole point of fula.)

Fwa - Fì'u + a. Meaning: That

E.g. Prrte' lu oeru fwa oe plltxe ngahu - It is great that I speak with him you. - You must use fwa and not futa because "lu" is an intransitive verb.

Futa - Fì'ut + a. Meaning: That

E.g. Oel omum futa nga skxawng lu - I know that you are a morron. - You must use futa as "omum" is a transitive verb. As futa means "Fì'ut a", and "fì'ut" has the patientive marker, you need to put the agentive marker in the subject.

Tsnì - Meaning: That

E.g. Sìlpey oe tsnì nga ke livu skxawng - I hope that you are not a morron. - With the verbs "sìlpey" and "ätxäle si" you can't use futa nor fwa, but tsnì. The verb in clause introduced by tsnì always take the <iv> infix.


Read more about it here: http://forum.learnnavi.org/syntax-grammar/futa-or-fwa-tsni/.

OK for ONE: THIS is true:

My sister's friend wants to be beautiful.
Oeyä tsmukeyä 'eylan<ìl> new futa l<iv>u lor.
(In this case, I completely improvised with the possessive forms at the beginning cause I didn't really know how to handle "double possession".)

Shouldn't it be: Oeyä tsmukeyä 'eylan new livu sevin? I don't think "futa" is needed there...

Except "new" is transitive, even if "lu" isn't, so it's required

No, it isn't required. New is modal, and can be used with or without a direct object. Both forms are correct.

For Two: THIS is what furia; fula; fwa; futa; tsnì.(and tsaria, tsala, tsawa, tsata) do:

fwa and tsawa: make a PHRASE into the SUBJECT of an INTRANSITIVE sentence.
fula and tsala: make a PHRASE into the TRANSITIVE AGENT of a sentence.
futa and tsata: make a PHRASE into the DIRECT OBJECT of a TRANSITIVE sentence.
furia and tsaria: make a PHRASE into the TOPIC of a sentence.

fwa is aka a fì'u
tsawa is aka a tsaw
fula is aka a fì'ul
tsala is aka a tsal
furia is aka a fì'uri
tsaria is aka a tsari

the form after aka is for "left branching" which is THIS:

tsun oe ngahu pivängkxo a fì'u oeru prrte' lu.
                     <---------
it means that the thing that is describing fì'u is on the left. in English, we typically always like "right branching", or things on the right, like this reordering of the above sentence:

oeru prrte' lu fwa tsun oe ngahu pivängkxo.
                       ----------->

hope this makes any sense at all. this is one way i understand it.

[MIPP]

But, ma Tirea, what I said is correct, right? (I already saw you corrected a few mistakes, I'm sorry)

[Tirea Aean]

But, ma Tirea, what I said is correct, right? (I already saw you corrected a few mistakes, I'm sorry)

except fula. fula is specifically designed to have a bunch of stuff be the -l that pairs with a -t of a transitive sentence. you used two intransitive verbs in that example.