Author Topic: Wanting a little advice  (Read 1090 times)

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Offline rifter

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Wanting a little advice
« on: December 15, 2010, 11:20:35 pm »
I tend to start feeling overwhelmed and frustrated when learning a language, which eventually leads to me putting it on the back burner and basically giving up. I genuinely want to learn, but always seem to feel as if I never make any progress. Now with Na'vi, I want to learn it and think it would be a great deal of fun, but I have some concerns.

First, I've only just begun and already feel a bit overwhelmed. This is likely due to the fact that I am not a linguist and really don't "understand" a lot of how language works. Sure I can use it well enough to communicate, but I have no idea what the terms mean or how the mechanics of my own language operate. I'm not proud of it, but I honestly didn't know that I didn't know these things until I tried learning another language. Lenition, infixes, dipthongs, participles, subjunctives and similar terms are all things that I sincerely have no idea what they are for. I'm pretty sure I must use them, but have no real sense of what they are. My mother never mentioned them while teaching me to speak and I don't remember any teachers discussing much of anything outside of verb, adj., adverb, noun and tense. Trying to remember these things as well as the words and information for the language is where I think the feeling of being overwhelmed comes from. Does anyone have suggestions regarding this?

Secondly, does anyone have any suggestions about learning Na'vi in a less technical, more natural way? I've always heard that learning a second language in the same/similar manner in which you were able to learn your native language is the best way. Since I don't have the resources to go to Pandora and live with the Na'vi ;) , I was wondering the best way to do this.

Next, I am and will forever have trouble with the "rr". I am one of those rare people who actually can not roll an r. I can not bend my tongue in half as most people seem able to do and and can not roll an r. I have been teased about this my entire life and called a liar by a Spanish professor, which drove me to actually ask both my biology professor and my doctor if it was possible. They both told me that while it is not "normal" it is very possible to not have the ability to roll an r or bend your tongue in half. It has something to do with the shape and structure of my tongue. So I naturally have found that I have difficulty with those Na'vi words.
 
Lastly, does anyone know of any current podcasts for Na'vi lessons? I've downloaded the only two episodes of the one I found and almost all of the recorded pronunciations that are linked in the forums, but I was looking for something a little more in depth. I only get so much from reading. It really helps me if I can actually hear the words/phrases as well as see them. For some reason I remember it easier if I can make the association between the two.

Any advice for any of these would be greatly appreciated.

Offline kaltxi Angtsik

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Re: Wanting a little advice
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2010, 11:30:50 pm »
I know it's not the whole answer, but watching the movie and listening to the Na'vi dialogue, until I know it by heart, keeps me motivated as it's more interesting than reading a dictionary - but whatever you do, don't talk like Jake or Grace!

Even Neytiri had a non-standard pronunciation, even though she was the nominal standard; the Omatikaya are known to have a weird accent. They say "ka" instead of "kä" and weird stuff like that. IMHO Eytukan had the best pronunciation of the lot; word on the street is that before he came to the Omatikaya, he was one of the few survivors of a disease that decimated his original clan.  :P

Yawey ngahu!
Oe nerume fte pivlltxe nìNa'vi.
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Offline rifter

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Re: Wanting a little advice
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2010, 11:41:27 pm »
I have been re-watching the movie trying to pick up bits and pieces of what they say and I get am getting a little better with some of it, but when using the books I just keep getting frustrated. I guess I don't know where to begin.

Offline kaltxi Angtsik

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Re: Wanting a little advice
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2010, 11:48:43 pm »
I have been re-watching the movie trying to pick up bits and pieces of what they say and I get am getting a little better with some of it, but when using the books I just keep getting frustrated. I guess I don't know where to begin.
Well, there is some excellent documentation on this site. I think the Navi in a Nutshell (aka NiaN) is excellent for example.

The useful docs are listed in this thread: http://forum.learnnavi.org/beginners/(for-beginners)-links-to-useful-documents/

Yawey ngahu!
Oe nerume fte pivlltxe nìNa'vi.
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Offline Txonä Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì

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Re: Wanting a little advice
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2010, 12:36:27 am »
Sounds like you need Project NgayNume (PNgN) my friend! PNgN is a Na'vi language class that works like a language class you'd take in school. We meet once a week in Teamspeak to learn Na'vi in a classroom-like environment. We are currently on a break until Jan 7. For more information on PNgN and to sign up, click here. Hope to see you sign up! :)

-Txonä Rolyu




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Offline rifter

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Re: Wanting a little advice
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2010, 12:38:39 am »
Navi in a nutshell has been the most useful thing I've found so far. Not that the rest of it isn't useful, but at this stage in the game, this one seems to be the one I'm getting the most out of.
I'd still like to find a navi language podcast with lesson if anyone knows of a current one.

Offline rifter

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Re: Wanting a little advice
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2010, 12:42:44 am »
Sounds like you need Project NgayNume (PNgN) my friend! PNgN is a Na'vi language class that works like a language class you'd take in school. We meet once a week in Teamspeak to learn Na'vi in a classroom-like environment. We are currently on a break until Jan 7. For more information on PNgN and to sign up, click here. Hope to see you sign up! :)

-Txonä Rolyu
does it meet at certain times? I work and am in grad school so my schedule is a bit tight.

Offline omängum fra'uti

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Re: Wanting a little advice
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2010, 12:55:49 am »
Take heart.  I have failed to learn many languages in the past; when I picked up Na'vi, there were no easy beginner lessons.  No dumbing down or explanations of the linguistic terms.  Every time I saw a term I didn't know (Which was every day at the time) I had to go research it, and hope it made sense.  I made many mistakes along the way.

And I learned from every single one of them.  Admittedly it is perhaps a little more intimidating now than it was then, as there is more known.  Perhaps the fact that it was simple at the time helped me.  But then perhaps it was just the community.  It may not be as good as talking, but having the forums here to see what other people are doing, try and pick out what they mean, pick out their mistakes too and learn from those.  If you're unsure on something, ask.  Most importantly, don't be shy, be bold and try using the language.  Don't be afraid of people pointing out mistakes; embrace it, learn from it.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Offline rifter

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Re: Wanting a little advice
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2010, 01:41:46 am »
Are you going to do any more podcast lessons? I have the two that were posted but I haven't seen more.

Offline omängum fra'uti

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Re: Wanting a little advice
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2010, 01:45:28 am »
Yeah as soon as I get more round tuits...  My life got a bit picked up and twisted about the past few months.  Right now my priority is getting the LN Android app onto the Android market, THEN worry about podcasts.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Offline Txonä Unil Stä'nìyu Rolyusì

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Re: Wanting a little advice
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2010, 01:51:39 am »
Sounds like you need Project NgayNume (PNgN) my friend! PNgN is a Na'vi language class that works like a language class you'd take in school. We meet once a week in Teamspeak to learn Na'vi in a classroom-like environment. We are currently on a break until Jan 7. For more information on PNgN and to sign up, click here. Hope to see you sign up! :)

-Txonä Rolyu
does it meet at certain times? I work and am in grad school so my schedule is a bit tight.

Yes, we are organized by time zone. If the meeting time of your time zone group is inconvenient for you, you are free to join another group with a more convenient time. We currently don't know specific class times right now as we are in the process of "resetting" the project, but we typically meet Friday nights in Teamspeak (TS). Last session, there was also a Thursday night class. Check the PNgN board regularly for updates, and I will also try to post a link to it in my signature.

-Txonä Rolyu




AvatarMeet was fantastic. Thanks to all who attended :D

Avatar Nation Karyu :D

Na'vi Kintrrä #70° :D

Keyeyluke ke tsun livu kea tìnusume

Oeri Uniltìrantokxìl txe'lanit nì'aw takeiuk nì'ul txa' fralo

Fpìl na Na'vi. Plltxe na Na'vi. Tìran na Na'vi. Kame na Na'vi

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Wanting a little advice
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2010, 04:38:32 am »
Sounds like you need Project NgayNume (PNgN) my friend! PNgN is a Na'vi language class that works like a language class you'd take in school. We meet once a week in Teamspeak to learn Na'vi in a classroom-like environment. We are currently on a break until Jan 7. For more information on PNgN and to sign up, click here. Hope to see you sign up! :)

-Txonä Rolyu

OOH OOH OOH OOH !!! THIS!!


yes join us as THIS, sir, is EXACTLY what we are about!! :D non-lingiust noobs of Na'vi of the world are welcome to join me and my students and teachers in a natural non-technical approach to Na'vi learning. we like to keep it fun. our Prezi artists are always making helpful, adorable and hilarious learning materials

THIS TIME around, Project NgayNume WILL have a PODCAST!! ;D

(I am clearly excited about the third release of NgayNume. This time i hope for it to be as great as the first. :D)


Yes, we are organized by time zone. If the meeting time of your time zone group is inconvenient for you, you are free to join another group with a more convenient time. We currently don't know specific class times right now as we are in the process of "resetting" the project, but we typically meet Friday nights in Teamspeak (TS). Last session, there was also a Thursday night class. Check the PNgN board regularly for updates, and I will also try to post a link to it in my signature.

-Txonä Rolyu

kelku ikranä a hawnventi yom podcast (na'vi-only): https://tirearadio.com/podcast
Learn Na'vi Discord Chat: https://discord.gg/WF6qcmv

Offline Kì’onga Vul

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Re: Wanting a little advice
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2010, 10:58:29 pm »
I know what you mean about the "rr" sound.  My grandma for the life of her can't curl her tongue even though everyone else in the family can, and we laugh at her a little bit for it.  But then if I mention that I can't roll my r's, everyone says, "That's easy.  See?  RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR."  In band class, we had to flutter tongue, which is basically playing while rolling an r, and the teacher, like yours, didn't believe that I couldn't do it.  I was afraid some sort of tongue handicap skipped a generation from my grandma or something.

So on the one hand, my grandma probably will never be able to curl her tongue.  However, I have made some progress in rolling my r's, though I'm not fully there yet. First, I was putting my tongue at my teeth, when it should have been back at the hard ridge of the gums before the palate (alveopalatal ridge--Wikipedia probably explains it better). So if you're doing that like I was, don't.  The way I do the "rr" best is a transition from a throaty sound (like "k" or "g" or German ch / IPA
  • or [ɣ], which I think is in Spanish) to the tip of my tongue, keeping the vibration.  I like the word 'Rrta because it moves from the throat to the alveopalatal ridge, where it stays for the "t" sound.

    Sometimes, though, I just have to fake it.  I find that with words like trr if I pronounce it "trur" ([tɾʊɾ]?) I can fit in enough r sounds to get by.

    Also, this site might help.  It has a lot of different methods for r-rolling, but you might find your own.  Hopefully you aren't genetically unable like my grandma!

    http://www.wikihow.com/Roll-Your-%22R%22s
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Offline Ikran Eyktan

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Re: Wanting a little advice
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2010, 02:02:49 pm »
I think the rolling of the "rr" could easily be one of the most difficult parts of the language to pronounce for a speaker who has never tried this before.  I am personally finding it very intimidating to master.  When I first started to study Na'vi in a nutshell, it was the very first learning aspect that worried me.  I couldn't (and still cant properly) make the sound.  I am very slowly getting better at it, and the best way I find to improve is to practice more, and don't get all tense when you mess up while practicing.  Just keep at it.

Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Wanting a little advice
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2010, 10:19:14 pm »
How to learn to roll your R's!

1. Get upset and frustrated about something.
2. While in state 1, have something go wrong.
3. In frustration and anger, keep calling out words with rr in them, as fast as you can. vrrtep is a good choice,
    as you can blame fayvrrtep for #1 and #2!
4. Keep doing this until your mouth is exhausted. Then do it a lot more.
5. You will at some point, magically begin rolling your R's correctly.
6. Note what you are doing to roll your R's and keep doing it!

Worked for me!  :)

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

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Re: Wanting a little advice
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2010, 10:25:19 pm »
How to learn to roll your R's!

1. Get upset and frustrated about something.
2. While in state 1, have something go wrong.
3. In frustration and anger, keep calling out words with rr in them, as fast as you can. vrrtep is a good choice,
    as you can blame fayvrrtep for #1 and #2!
4. Keep doing this until your mouth is exhausted. Then do it a lot more.
5. You will at some point, magically begin rolling your R's correctly.
6. Note what you are doing to roll your R's and keep doing it!

Worked for me!  :)

'Epìkx....

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