Author Topic: 'änsyema 2 John ... pivey ... pxasìk!  (Read 2982 times)

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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: 'änsyema 2 John ... pivey ... pxasìk!
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2012, 09:40:23 am »
i saw the post when it came out, now that we know the correct way to say the thing i was putting off, I will be back after church to post my take on the verse. :D

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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: 'änsyema 2 John ... pivey ... pxasìk!
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2012, 08:35:54 pm »
and verse 5
Pxiset ma tuté fì'ut a awnga yawne livu fìtsap, vivin ohel nìfya'o a oel mipa korenit ke lawk ki pumit a awngaru lolu sngä'ikrrta..
Right now, lady, that we-all may be beloved to each other, I request in a way that I dont speak of a new rule but rather one which has been to us since the beginning.

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Offline Eltu Lefngap Makto

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Re: 'änsyema 2 John ... pivey ... pxasìk!
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2012, 09:45:40 pm »
and verse 5
Pxiset ma tuté fì'ut a awnga yawne livu fìtsap, vivin ohel nìfya'o a oel mipa korenit ke lawk ki pumit a awngaru lolu sngä'ikrrta..
Right now, lady, that we-all may be beloved to each other, I request in a way that I dont speak of a new rule but rather one which has been to us since the beginning.
Wou!  I think you made it overly complicated.  Here's the NIV

Quote from: NIV 2 John 1:5
And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another.

Learning from you, I would say

Pxiset, ma Sa'nok, ohel ngaru mipa korenit ke pamrel seri ki pumit a awngaru lolu sngä'ikrrtaFuta awnga livu fìtsap, ohel vivan.
'Ivong, Na'vi!

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: 'änsyema 2 John ... pivey ... pxasìk!
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2012, 09:51:40 pm »
oh ok.

1: sure thats fine, but it literally sounds like you are making it sound like he was writing to his mother.

2: stop using l/t with pamrel si. "___ si" verbs are not cool enough to be seen in company with such cases. ;D

3: irayo, was wondering if you didnt do it that way for a specific reason.

4: because you are writing oe long hand as ohe and it seemed fitting at the time. ::) ;D
« Last Edit: January 01, 2012, 09:53:38 pm by Tirea Aean »

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Offline Eltu Lefngap Makto

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Re: 'änsyema 2 John ... pivey ... pxasìk!
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2012, 09:43:09 pm »
4: because you are writing oe long hand as ohe and it seemed fitting at the time. ::) ;D
I thought ohe was honorific of oe  ???
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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: 'änsyema 2 John ... pivey ... pxasìk!
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2012, 09:45:31 pm »
it is.

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Offline Eltu Lefngap Makto

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Re: 'änsyema 2 John ... pivey ... pxasìk!
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2012, 02:40:03 am »
2: stop using l/t with pamrel si. "___ si" verbs are not cool enough to be seen in company with such cases. ;D
So, have a made in an insoluble pickle, using pamrel si?  Can I not say what he wrote about, and so have to make two clauses, e.g. Ngaru ohe pamrel si mìftxele: ohel ke lolawk mipa korenit ki pumit ...
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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: 'änsyema 2 John ... pivey ... pxasìk!
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2012, 06:17:04 am »
you can't say X writes a Y. with pamrel si. because pamrel si is a "___ si" verb, intransitive by definition. "___ si" has the meaning of "engage in the ____ action"

mìftxele has a meaning closer to "By the way, (and what I'm about to bring up is related to the current matter)[...]", iirc.

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Re: 'änsyema 2 John ... pivey ... pxasìk!
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2012, 10:09:51 am »
so verse 5

Pxiset, ma Sa'nok, ohel ngaru pamrel seri mìftxele: ohel ke lolawk mipa korenit ki pumit a awngaru lolu sngä'ikrrta.  Futa awnga livu fìtsap, ohel vivan.

and now, verse 6

This is love, that we should walk according to his commandments. This is the commandment, even as you heard from the beginning, that you should walk in it.
Tìyawnìri, tivìran awnga ìlä horen peyä.  Korenìri, aynga nìtengfya stamawn sngä'ikrrta, tivìran nìtengfya.
Regarding love, we should walk according to his rules.  Regarding the rule, as y'all heard, y'all should walk as.
'Ivong, Na'vi!

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: 'änsyema 2 John ... pivey ... pxasìk!
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2012, 12:57:53 pm »
why always ohe but never ngenga? (also why even honorifics at all in an non-ceremonial, casual letter setting?)

verse 5:

I get:

Right now, mother, I(incorrect case) to you am writing. By the way(but not unrelated to the current topic), I discussed not a new rule, but instead one which we have had since the beginning. This we would love each other thing I request(typo).
« Last Edit: January 03, 2012, 01:02:49 pm by Tirea Aean »

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Offline Eltu Lefngap Makto

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Re: 'änsyema 2 John ... pivey ... pxasìk!
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2012, 02:36:23 pm »
OK, so I'm a skxawng, but I'm progressing!  :P
'Ivong, Na'vi!

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: 'änsyema 2 John ... pivey ... pxasìk!
« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2012, 02:45:51 pm »
I wouldnt call you skxawng. not even sngä'iyu. And no one is a tsulfätu ;)
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 12:20:28 pm by Tirea Aean »

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Re: 'änsyema 2 John ... pivey ... pxasìk!
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2012, 03:25:28 pm »
Don't feel slighted, ma Eltu. I have been banging away at Na'vi for nearly two years, and there are things I still don't consistently do right (ask TA  :-[ ). You have done a pretty good job in a relatively short time.

I am also wondering why you use sanok and a lot of honorifics. I think that John intended this as an informal letter. An honorific at the start may be OK, but IMHO they should be dropped after that. TA's choice of tutè or perhaps tsmuke seems more appropriate here, as this seems to be written to a well-respected woman. This could be considered as a woman, tutè, but we really don't have a word that fits 'lady'. tsmuke means 'sister', and is appropriate in a phileo sense here that John would consider her a 'sister in the Lord'. But because John didn't use 'sister' here, that reads something into this passage that is not in the original. So, I would use the closer-meaning, but not as 'nice' tutè and start off with an honorific. Using honorifics beyond that would give you the impression she was a queen, etc.

I hope this all makes sense!

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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: 'änsyema 2 John ... pivey ... pxasìk!
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2012, 03:30:53 pm »
Don't feel slighted, ma Eltu. I have been banging away at Na'vi for nearly two years, and there are things I still don't consistently do right (ask TA  :-[ ). You have done a pretty good job in a relatively short time.

I am also wondering why you use sanok and a lot of honorifics. I think that John intended this as an informal letter. An honorific at the start may be OK, but IMHO they should be dropped after that. TA's choice of tutè or perhaps tsmuke seems more appropriate here, as this seems to be written to a well-respected woman. This could be considered as a woman, tutè, but we really don't have a word that fits 'lady'. tsmuke means 'sister', and is appropriate in a phileo sense here that John would consider her a 'sister in the Lord'. But because John didn't use 'sister' here, that reads something into this passage that is not in the original. So, I would use the closer-meaning, but not as 'nice' tutè and start off with an honorific. Using honorifics beyond that would give you the impression she was a queen, etc.

I hope this all makes sense!

I am Tirea Aean and I approve this post. ;D

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Offline Eltu Lefngap Makto

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Re: 'änsyema 2 John ... pivey ... pxasìk!
« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2012, 03:33:19 pm »
I does (make sense).  It's hard (for me) being humbled.  :-\  I thought I could whip out this chapter pxi-quick and have a whole book of the Bible under my belt!  :-*

I'm very glad we are having this large-scale discussion.  I am also wondering about verse 7, because there are three problem words: deceiver, confess (which in the Greek comes from "say the same thing as") and anti-christ.
'Ivong, Na'vi!

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: 'änsyema 2 John ... pivey ... pxasìk!
« Reply #35 on: January 03, 2012, 04:21:56 pm »
so verse 5

Pxiset, ma tuté, ohe ngengaru pamrel si, ke lerawk mipa korenit ki pumit a awngaru lolu sngä'ikrrta.  Futa awnga livu yawne (awngaru) fìtsap, ohel vivan.

and now, verse 6

This is love, that we should walk according to his commandments. This is the commandment, even as you heard from the beginning, that you should walk in it.
Tìyawnìri, sweylu txo tivìran awnga ìlä horen peyä. Fìkorenìlä a stolawm ayngal keng sngä'ikrrta, sweylu txo tivìran.
Regarding love, we should walk according to his rules.  By this rule you have heard even since the begining, should (you) walk.

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Offline Eltu Lefngap Makto

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Re: 'änsyema 2 John ... pivey ... pxasìk!
« Reply #36 on: January 03, 2012, 06:03:54 pm »
so verse 5

Pxiset, ma tuté, ohe ngengaru pamrel si, ke lerawk mipa korenit ki pumit a awngaru lolu sngä'ikrrta.  Futa awnga livu yawne (awngaru) fìtsap, ohel vivan.

and now, verse 6

This is love, that we should walk according to his commandments. This is the commandment, even as you heard from the beginning, that you should walk in it.
Tìyawnìri, sweylu txo tivìran awnga ìlä horen peyä. Fìkorenìlä a stolawm ayngal keng sngä'ikrrta, sweylu txo tivìran.
Regarding love, we should walk according to his rules.  By this rule you have heard even since the begining, should (you) walk.

Wou!  ::) Nga yawne oeru lu!  You make it look so easy!
'Ivong, Na'vi!

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: 'änsyema 2 John ... pivey ... pxasìk!
« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2012, 06:19:13 pm »
Quote
Can't help helpin'

 ;)

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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: 'änsyema 2 John ... pivey ... pxasìk!
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2012, 08:25:17 pm »
An unrelated comment to this instant translation, but very much germaine to what is happening here--

At the start of this project, there was a lot of discussion on how best to display your work, so others could see how you went about your translation. The original idea, popularized by a number of folks, was to have the various lines of text 'stacked', so the words of the various parts more or less lined up. I had envisioned up to 7 rows of text for each line of scripture, some of which I now see as rarely needed.

However, the more I am looking at it, the more I like this side-by side column format. It is less structured then the above idea, but clear enough that anyone having any business doing Bible translation should clearly understand what is going on. It also makes it easier to do verse-at-a-time stuff (I think).

I am going to start another thread where this can be discussed further, as it would help everyone to do work here in more or less the same way.

Back to 2 John!

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

 

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