Author Topic: Bible in Na'vi  (Read 78263 times)

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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #140 on: March 23, 2010, 03:17:08 pm »
Good words, Colonel!

You are right in your thoughts about the KJV. The KJV, although a bit harder for a lot of us who know 'modern English' to read is still considered to be a very good literal translation. (The most literal translation in English is usually considered to the the New American Standard, with KJV a close second.) If you don't work in original languages (and there are others here who I can tell are far beyond me in their original language skills), this is a good base to start. But having several different translations handy, or using a parallel Bible can be very useful as to judging little shades of meaning. Anything that helps make for a better translation is good. (There's still a big question on how to balance literal vs paraphrase at this point. Maybe the balance will end up being something like the NIV, which is a 'dynamic translation'.)

The suggestion for prayer goes without saying!

I have suggested that proper names, other than those of deity and spiritual beings, be set off by enclosing in curly braces, at least for starters. Other ideas are still welcome. Keeping proper names original, at least for now, will be really important for books like Numbers, Joshua, Ezra, and 1 Chronicles, with their endless lists of names. I have also seen translations from other languages (especially Japanese) where troublesome English terms were left permanently untranslated. (Most of these documents were highly technical in nature.)

Also, as this is a monumental task, no one should feel like they are under any pressure to hurry. Although this project has the potential to be spiritually important, it should be enjoyable, edifying, and a good learning experience as well.

Tìmuiäyä'itan, I would like to use some of the translation you have done to build text formatting suggestions with. Is that OK?

I am not going to be very active for a couple of days because my work schedule is pretty much eating up most of my spare time. After that, there will be 'bursts' of activity as I have time. This coming weekend should be good in general.

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Offline Tìmuiäyä'itan

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #141 on: March 23, 2010, 03:41:07 pm »
@Col:
Irayo for the encouragement. Just what I needed right now. :)

Quote from: 'Eylan Ayfalulukanä
I have suggested that proper names, other than those of deity and spiritual beings, be set off by enclosing in curly braces
I'd go so far as to propose maybe set even God names in braces, thatby I mean false Gods like Ba'al, but also the different versions of the Lord's names etc. It is just a thought though, we might want to be able to not have Lord Zebaoth, LORD, Lord and what not all translated with Yawä... What do others think (I think we have yet a small enough amount of text to redo these braces where necessary).

Quote from: 'Eylan Ayfalulukanä
Tìmuiäyä'itan, I would like to use some of the translation you have done to build text formatting suggestions with. Is that OK?
Sure it is, don't need to ask. Hmm, maybe should make this official: I declare hereby the translations I produce for this project to be in the public domain.
After all, it's not for myself I'm doing this ;)

Quote from: 'Eylan Ayfalulukanä
there will be 'bursts' of activity as I have time. This coming weekend should be good in general.
I think that's true for most of us ;) and you you said above: We have no reason to hurry, this is no competition about being first, it's a means to get closer to the Lord's holy scripture, to bring it to new audiences (hopefully) but not least also to have fun and to learn a bit more Na'vi.


Yawä ayngahu!
srungìri ftära tsyokxìl ngeyä
ke ivomum futa pesuru
lu srung skiena tsyokxta ngeyä
ulte Jesus a nerìn ayfo pamlltxe
san sutehu lu keltsun
slä Yawähu frakem tsunslu sìk.

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #142 on: March 23, 2010, 04:11:43 pm »
If anyone wants to collaborate by means of TeamSpeak3, that would be awesome. Idk if you have seen the AVATAR trailer with Na'vi subtitles, but that project was a result of Teamspeak collaboration and a bit of tweakage by some others. I was thinking that I could make us a channel in there and we can take it a step at a time, all helping to translate each verse. that way, more than one person's input is heard on all the verses.

Info on the Teamspeak server: http://forum.learnnavi.org/website-info/if-i-was-to-host-a-teamspeak-server/

I'd love to make this a regular collaboration and enjoyable experience!  ;D

--Tirea Aean

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Offline Tìmuiäyä'itan

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #143 on: March 23, 2010, 04:16:56 pm »
Great idea, but I'd have to pass. Internet connectivity is just too lousy here...  >:(
srungìri ftära tsyokxìl ngeyä
ke ivomum futa pesuru
lu srung skiena tsyokxta ngeyä
ulte Jesus a nerìn ayfo pamlltxe
san sutehu lu keltsun
slä Yawähu frakem tsunslu sìk.

Offline Col Quaritch

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #144 on: March 24, 2010, 02:53:40 pm »
Okay I'm ready to post my John 3:16, as I stated was waiting for a program. Its the complete workds of Max Lucado and KJV, NKJV and NCV as well ton of notes comentarys you name it for bible study galore. I'm going to post this in 3 parts first as I took it from the New Century of the 3 bibles I felt this was the best translation to help me get the message across, the 2nd is in Navi the last is the literal english translation of the Navi verse. where I could not find Navi words such as And and The I simply put these in but put them in brackets. So I'll stop rambling and here you go.

John 3:16 "God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son so that whoever believes in him may not be lost, but have eternal life.

John 3:16 fpi (the) kifkey Yawä timing 'aw ni'aw itan fte pesu spaw mi'poan "'Itan (or the Son) kawkrr terkup, slä kelku si krr si' krr.


Literal Translation
John 3:16 For the sake of the world God gave one only son so that who believe in the Son never die, but live ever and ever.

I'm sure there is some grammer erros in the Navi but I sturly beleive I got the message across to the meaning of the verse.

Now as to the other topic I feel you all are right till something major drops in our laps i.e. Dr Frommer graces us with new words or better joins the project (wouldnt that be awesome) Proper names all of them espicaly those pretianing to our Lord simply go in brackets (Christ the Lord) and so on and so. I know for now it will make the text look a little odd but till more of the language is offered up to us and more of it is mastered we are left with little choices at this time.

As to the team speak I think its a great Ideal I'll make it a point next payday to get a mic cuase I dont think screaming really loud at my computer you will hear me :P (I'm warped) And thank you and God bless you so much for making us a special channel for this. As well as learning to read Na'vi I would like to speak it and is the hope one day as well to have a full audio bible in navi. But for now lets get the written one done.

I want to thank each person who has taken time to step up and answer the Lords call for this very special project, I know I never asked for the help not even sure why I thought in my head I could do this alone (stubborn I guess, ps wife will read this and probaly say something to effect YES) But God bless you all for doing so this by far takes a huge load off my back for sure. As your project leader I'll do what I can to get the resources we need to make this project a reality. I'm aware there are those who see this as a fancifull wish or a silly dream. Only each of us can prove other wise and more inportantly prove to be the workers of him who called us.

Yours in Christ


Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #145 on: March 24, 2010, 03:21:17 pm »

Quote from: 'Eylan Ayfalulukanä
I have suggested that proper names, other than those of deity and spiritual beings, be set off by enclosing in curly braces
I'd go so far as to propose maybe set even God names in braces, thatby I mean false Gods like Ba'al, but also the different versions of the Lord's names etc. It is just a thought though, we might want to be able to not have Lord Zebaoth, LORD, Lord and what not all translated with Yawä... What do others think (I think we have yet a small enough amount of text to redo these braces where necessary).

I think that is a good suggestion. We do have a term for 'demon' vrrtep (That and its plural fayvrrtep are among my favorite Na`vi words, and good for learning how to roll your R's.)

You make an interesting point with terms like Jehovah Saboath, Jehovah Jirea, etc. These are (I think) all 'YHWH (adjective)' in Hebrew. Jehovah saboath might translate Yawä aysampongu or sampongu. Also in the O.T., more often than not, 'God' = 'Elohim' and 'Lord' = 'YHWH'. One name for Jesus I like is 'Lion of the Tribe of Judah' or possibly Palulukanru olo'ri a{Judah}

On a completely different subject: What does one need in the way of hardware to use Teamspeak? And, are any of you on at odd hours? Besides the possibility of colloboration on this project, I very badly want to have someone I can converse with in Na`vi on a regular basis, to improve my pronunciation skills.

« Last Edit: March 24, 2010, 03:24:58 pm by `Eylan Ayfalulukanä »

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Offline Col Quaritch

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #146 on: March 24, 2010, 03:29:00 pm »
Just need a mic and the free software they have teamspeak.com i think.

Hey thought I would let everyone know I will be making a website soon that will be showing other our progress here, sharing about Jesus and listing any new words we might come up with in Na'vi for the Bible. I'm not sure yet but I beleive I can even set it up so only certian people can add to it i.e. Bible-Navi project team members cool huh? I'll let you know more as I learn how my service provider works their end of personal pages.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2010, 04:01:10 pm by Col Quaritch »


Offline Alìm Tsamsiyu

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #147 on: March 24, 2010, 05:30:20 pm »
My Na'vi ears and grammar infraction radar are going crazy looking at this thread.

If we're going to translate the most important book ever written, it's going to take some serious proofreading to ensure we've done it justice by getting it correct.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very glad to see a project like this taking off, and I very much want to get involved in it (I'd probably be of most use proofreading and editing your translations, but I would love to translate some as well), but I really need to make a few comments on this first:

First of all, it's painful to me to see the spread of "Yawä" as a word intended to be pronounced similar to "Yahweh."

ä sounds like the a in sat, hat, bat, cat, that, smack, flak, rack, etc...

Not "eh" or "ey" as Yahweh's ending sound is like.

For "eh" we have e in Na'vi. (bet, set, let, met, etc.)
For "ey" it's pretty simple: ey. (tsaheylu, they, etc.)

Please, I beg of you, stop using "Yawä" and pick up either "Yawey" or "Yawe."

Yahweh already sounds fairly close to "Eywa" in sound/flow and does sound quite "Na'vi" - Actually before even seeing this thread (today) I had been telling my friends "Yahweh ngahu" xD

------------------------------------

Secondly, KJV is really not a very good standard to translate from English into Na'vi.  Very many things would carry very different meanings from the original Hebrew/Greek texts.

For this reason, I suggest NASB (New American Standard Bible), which was translated into modern day English directly from ancient Hebrew and Greek manuscripts.  This version is the most accurate translation we have today.

----

Now... that translation of John 3:16 has quite a good many issues.  This leads me into my next point here:

Avoid. Idioms. At. All. Costs.

Using "mì" for "believe in Him" is highly idiomatic and incorrect.

I suggest you spend a lot of time on Skype/irc/the forums (skype's probably the best place to practice) and get your grammar down SOLID. I'll be there to help if you need it.

As for my rendition of John 3:16...

(More accurate to Hebrew - English translation [and easier to translate])
"God loved the world so much that He gave His only Son so that anyone who believes in Him will not die but will live for eternity."

Frapo fìtxan yawne lamu Yawer atalun Poanìl 'awa 'Itan poyä tolìng fte ke tayerkup slä rey frakrr tuteo a speraw teri Foan

(Whew that was a tough one!)

Literally:
Everyone was so beloved to Yahweh, for this reason He gave His one Son so that anyone who believes (is believing) concerning Him will not die but will live always.

The word for "only" that we have cannot be used as an adjective (at least, I don't think it can), so I had some trouble with "Only son."

Also, the final part of that, "anyone who believes concerning Him will not die but will live always" is very sketchy to me, because it makes liberal use of the Na'vi word order to achieve the "will not die but will live always -> anyone <- who believes concerning Him."  I had to word it this way because "anyone" must be the focal point as they are the subject of the sentence and the modifying sub-sentence (perhaps the topic marker might help here...).

Another thing in the final part, "believes concerning Him" might be somewhat different from "Believes in Him" in exact meaning.  We don't really have a good word for that kind of idiom, I'm afraid, that was the closest I could get.

----------------------------------

Alright - That's all I have for now.

Yawe ngahu ma oeyä smuk.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2010, 05:35:33 pm by Alìm Tsamsiyu »
Oeyä ayswizawri tswayon alìm ulte takuk nìngay.
My arrows fly far and strike true.

Offline Letxepa tirea

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #148 on: March 24, 2010, 06:42:53 pm »
Ma Alìm Tsamsiyu, Irayo fpi ngayä srung.

Anyway here are the first three verses of Proverbs for you guys to pick apart  ;D

 1The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel;

Solomon-yä ay-lì’u a-txantslusam. Solomon-yä sempul lamu David ulte David l<am>u Israel-yä eyktan.

Solomon.POS PLU.word ADJ.wise. Solomon.POS father PAST.am David and David PAST.am Israel.POS leader.

Solomon's wise words. Solomon's father was David and David was Isreal's leader.

 2To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;

Omum tì-txantslusam sí sänume ulte ‘efu tì-tslam-yä ay-lì’u

Know NOUNPRF.wise and instruction and perceive NOUNPRF.understand.POS PLU.word

Know wisdom and instruction and perceive understanding's words

 3To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;

Ulte tel sänume-yä tì-txantslusam sì tì-muiä sì law-a ay-tì-ftxey sì tì-teng

And receive instruction.POS NOUNPRF.wise and NOUNPRF.justified(or fair) and clear.ADJ PLU.NOUNPRF.choose and NOUNPRF.equal

And receive instruction's wisdom and justice(or fairness) and clear choices and equality
« Last Edit: March 24, 2010, 06:49:52 pm by Letxepa tirea »





Oe zola'u, Oe tsole'a, Oe skola'a

Offline Col Quaritch

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #149 on: March 24, 2010, 06:48:10 pm »
I'm very aware this is important project. Proofreading was something we all had in mind before deciding something is %100 done and ready to be committed to .pdf format for download. I think at this time only 1 or 2 of us has means to voice chat I will again in about 11 days, But as I have said before many of us bring different levels to it, not all of us are blessed to understand or read the original text Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic languages. I'll admit I’m little disappointed I really thought I had done some good work for my first attempt at navi translation but you tore it to pieces.

As to which bible to use I use the one that speaks the clearest to me which to be honest depends on the time what I'm reading I have about 30 to choose from and can put them side by side on the computer for comparison. I think the original thought was KJV because this is most widely known but after you translate who would even know what it was translated from.

As to the translation of Yawä it was a descion at the time but as of late we have had the talk of reverting back to just names as they appear and bracket them until a suitable Na'vi version is available, such as we know Pawl and Marki as for other names at this time they will remain the same as in the Holy Scriptures but bracketed.

As to joining we welcome the help very much so my expertise is not navi in any sense only from what I been picking up from the downloads I been doing, my field is the bible and preaching nearly 15 years at least in that field. We all have our fields of expertise to make this project a reality and it’s defiantly not a job for just one person. There no assigned books I have said just simply take the book or passages that you find your favorite to start with such as I am working on the book of John and Tìmuiäyä'itan doing Psalms.
Yours in Christ,

Project Team Leader Colonel Quaritch


Offline Mako

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #150 on: March 24, 2010, 07:31:43 pm »
I hate to just step in and throw this out there but have you guys considered using the Message? It's the most straightforward English bible you can find, written in everyday English.

Offline Col Quaritch

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #151 on: March 24, 2010, 09:30:32 pm »
The Message is a good Bible, but as I state I want each of our translators to use what they are comfortable with as once you translate to another language it will bear very little to its source. King James Im sure as beautifull as the language of it is there just no theith and thouith in Navi lol would be funny to hear im sure. Sanumeyu if your most comfortable with the Message please continue to use it.


Offline Tìmuiäyä'itan

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #152 on: March 25, 2010, 06:58:45 am »
Hmm, somehow the system didn't tell me here were new posts. Haven't read them through, just wanted to post the beginning of Psalm 2 as far as I've come. I won't have the time now to comment on different postings here, for some I want to say something, but that'll have to wait for later.

So here is my current work on Psalm 2:

1.
Pelun/lmpe   ke lu      mawey   <ay>pongu   <a>lahe
why         not.be   calm      PLU.group   ADJ.other

ulte   <ay>olo'<l>   <a>lahe      plltxe   teri      <tì>wem<it>?
and   PLU.clan.ERG   ADJ.other      speak   about   NMLZ.fight.ACC

Why are the other groups not calm and the other clans speak about fight?
(in the original the Heathens (=Non-Israelites) are in turmoil and the people do growl)

2.
<ay>eyktan   atxkxe<yä>   kllkxem   ulte   sute      <a>nawm      ultxa si      fpi         awsiteng   p<iv>lltxe wä      {Yawä}
PLU.leader   land.GEN      stand   and   PLU.man   ADJ.noble      meeting.V      for the sake   together   speak   against   YHWH

sì   {Messiah}   po<yä>
and   Messiah   he.GEN

The leaders of the land stand (up) and the noble men meet in order to speak against Yawä

3.
san      sk<iv>a'a      ayoeng<ìl>   <sì>yìm<it>         <ay>fo<ä>   ulte   y<iv>em   mìso      <ay>selem<it>   <ay>fo<ä>   sìk
quote   destroy.SUBJ   we.ERG      PLU.NMLZ.bind.ACC   PLU.he.GEN   and   put.SUBJ   away   PLU.cord.ACC   PLU.he.GEN   end quote
"Let us destroy their bands and put away their cords."
(it appears to me that the Hebrew text says HIS bands and HIS cords... but KJV translates a Plural, so does Luther, plus it makes sense as YHWH and the Messiah are named, so I leave it that way too)

4.
po   a   kelku si   mì   saw   h<er>angham.      {Adonay}   h<er>angham <nì>kxu      teri       <ay>fo.
he   who   house.V   in   sky   laugh.IMPF      Adonay   laugh.IMPF   ADV.harm      about   PLU.he
He who lives in the sky/heavens is laughing.      The Lord is laughing harmingly about them.
(there are two words, to laugh and to mock. as there is no "to mock" in Na'vi I decided to add "harmingly" to the second laugh, as this verb is used in the bible only when bad things are about to come to those being mocked at by the LORD)

Somehow the tabs got all wrong pasting it here, and I cannot use tab in this text field... >:( I hope it is still possible to get my idea.


Kìyevame!
srungìri ftära tsyokxìl ngeyä
ke ivomum futa pesuru
lu srung skiena tsyokxta ngeyä
ulte Jesus a nerìn ayfo pamlltxe
san sutehu lu keltsun
slä Yawähu frakem tsunslu sìk.

Offline Alìm Tsamsiyu

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #153 on: March 25, 2010, 08:52:25 am »
Ma Col Quaritch,

I did not mean to sound condescending, and if I did, oeru txoa ngeyä livu.

I think you're right that the Na'vi Bible, once translated, will give away little information as to which source was used.  My only reasoning for suggesting something other than KJV was that there are some old-English idioms in the KJV version that mean very different things today than they did in the past.  I don't dislike KJV, but I fear that using it will lead to a propagation of literally translated idioms that then make no sense in Na'vi.

I'll admit I’m little disappointed I really thought I had done some good work for my first attempt at navi translation but you tore it to pieces.

Aww, your first attempt was a very good one (and very hard one for a Na'vi beginner), you shouldn't feel disappointed or defeated because of that.  My first attempted sentences were much simpler and I still botched them pretty badly ;). We all start somewhere.

I still stand by my suggestion to get on the Skype chat (you don't have to have voice chat for this, mostly just typing) - I'll be there to help grammar and vocab issues (that's where I spend most of my time helping people with Na'vi).

I've been studying Na'vi since just after the release of the movie, so I consider myself pretty well versed in Na'vi (as we currently know it), and I am glad to offer my relative expertise to this project.  :)

Again, don't feel bad about your attempts at translation - as Albert Einstein said, "Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."

------------

A quick thought on the Bible names also - I think the best way to approach this would be to make either Na'vi equivalents to the meanings of the names or to match the Hebrew phonetics with Na'vi phonetics... (a la "Yawe/Yawey").

This is how most other language translations of the Bible do it from what I understand.  Also, I highly doubt we'll ever get any official word on these names from Frommer himself, so we'll eventually have to come up with these names anyway, and might as well do it now at the start.

------------

Ma Tìmuiäyä'itan, good translation!

The only thing I see is in verse 4, "saw" - not sure if you intended this to be plural (you didn't mark it if you did)
If not, it'd just be "taw."
Oeyä ayswizawri tswayon alìm ulte takuk nìngay.
My arrows fly far and strike true.

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #154 on: March 25, 2010, 11:22:08 am »
Yes. I've also been here a while and I agree that Skype would be a good idea to more quickly and get verses done and grammar be discussed. my skype name is coreys11 (the baltimore one) if anyone needs any help with grammar or something like that, please feel free to contact me!

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Offline Tìmuiäyä'itan

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #155 on: March 25, 2010, 03:15:40 pm »
Kaltxì ma smukan!
I just found out that the new version of Taronyu's dictionary has a word for head and other body parts. This will have me rework my psalms once more all over again... But especially head was a word I've been missing, as you can use it to construct many other new words.

Ma Alìm Tsamslyu:
Quote
I don't dislike KJV, but I fear that using it will lead to a propagation of literally translated idioms that then make no sense in Na'vi.
I think that problem you would have with either bible when not looking left nor right. And as this is an international project, I think there'll be many influences from many different denominations and cultures going to the text and the reviews.

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I'll be there to help grammar and vocab issues
Like the Col said: Great you wanna support us. Irayo. Though I feel among the more secure in the language here in this project, I am still only a noobish beginner, but it serves me that I had to learn some languages in school and Uni, so I know most grammar terms and what they do mean more or less. But it's great to have someone with us who was here since the beginning.

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a la "Yawe/Yawey"
Problem is: How did the Hebrews pronounce the names? ;) Even today in Israel you can hear clearly who is an immigrant from the USA and who not. I was able to tell this apart before I knew only one word in Hebrew.

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This is how most other language translations of the Bible do it from what I understand
... and they still end up with names as different as: Matteo, Mattisyahu, Matthäus, Mathew, Mathieu... they still look similar when written, but once you pronounce them...

But I agree. Sooner or later we have to see how to get this done. The question is: Do we start from English, from Hebrew, from Greek, from Kiswahili...? If we start from Hebrew, Jeremiah would end up with something like Yirmeyahu. Do we want this? Will people understand it?
Some names do also have a meaning and it's often a playing with words, like Benjamin who was first to be named Ben Oni (Son of bad luck or likely) but was then named Benjamin (son of the right hand, of Righteousness), or theink about Immanuel being the synonym for Jesus, meaning God with us... but you'd still understand the main message without those translated names, otherwise the Bible in our own national languages would not work either. The question is what we want. Yet I think the idea to keep the English names is a good approximation, and when we put them in braces, we can have them replaced quickly later by a script or something...

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The only thing I see is in verse 4, "saw" - not sure if you intended this to be plural (you didn't mark it if you did)
If not, it'd just be "taw."
I meant it to be singular, but I thought the "mì" before it causes lention...?

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If we're going to translate the most important book ever written, it's going to take some serious proofreading to ensure we've done it justice by getting it correct.
This is why we post our work here to crossreview. As already said: Most of us are beginners, we just don't know better but are eager to learn. For some this might even be their first foreign language they learn.

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First of all, it's painful to me to see the spread of "Yawä" as a word intended to be pronounced similar to "Yahweh."
It works well if you pronounce Jahwe like the Germans do ;) That's where I came from in the beginning, I had the first text with JHWH in it, so I had to come to a decision. People here agreed with me on it, that's how it went. Now, a couple of days later, I'd rather go by Yawì, which seems to me to be closest to what I think the Hebrews would have pronounced it. But still, this might be as German-centered as your Yawey is (US)English-centered...

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More accurate to Hebrew - English translation [and easier to translate
There was no Hebrew gospel of John that we would know of ;) Original is Greek. But still, it's great you help us on our translations. We can really need your help.

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Another thing in the final part, "believes concerning Him" might be somewhat different from "Believes in Him" in exact meaning.  We don't really have a good word for that kind of idiom, I'm afraid, that was the closest I could get.
I was already thinking about using "kame" for believe in the biblical sense, because it is somehow seeing something you cannot see with your eyes, but rather your heart or as said spiritually...
I just like this "kame" word.

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"God loved the world so much that He gave His only Son so that anyone who believes in Him will not die but will live for eternity."

Frapo fìtxan yawne lamu Yawer atalun Poanìl 'awa 'Itan poyä tolìng fte ke tayerkup slä rey frakrr tuteo a speraw teri Foan

(Whew that was a tough one!)

Literally:
Everyone was so beloved to Yahweh, for this reason He gave His one Son so that anyone who believes (is believing) concerning Him will not die but will live always.
If you cannot add only to son, then you also cannot add fìtxan to yawne, right? And I am not sure if I would say that what you say is theologically the same as the original, as you speak of everyone, more or less taking each individual on his or her own, while the text says "the world", so this is more of a community (and some might even argue, that animals are included in world as well).

I just learn that there is no word for "to love" in Na'vi. This might end up in a big problem for a bible translation as there are three Greek words for it...

tìawn si looks strange in a way, doesn't it? Any way, I have a strong feeling the verse should start with God loving the world in an active way. The adjective yawne leaves us no chance as to have a passive construct. Or would it be passible to guess yawne as y<awn>e? Does this leave us with ye=to love?

Ye Yawäl fratutet (fraswirä)...

I am not sure how to go on, as I am still a bit insecure about subclauses. All those fwas and furias confuse me. I thought of something like as much as... na would be like, as, but this needn't mean that you can use it like in English comparatives...

his only son: lu poru nìaw fì 'itan (a'aw) = for him was only this (one) son

But this sentence is really a hard nut especially if you don't know about subclauses like me... :P
So I think the Colonel did a real good job on this. Another approach would be to split it up in small sentences:
The Lord loved the world very much. Because of this, he gave His only Son. This way, everybody that believes in Him will have life forever and will not be lost (or lose himself spiritually ? -> 'ia)

Ma Colonel:
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As to the translation of Yawä it was a descion at the time but as of late we have had the talk of reverting back to just names as they appear and bracket them until a suitable Na'vi version is available
I am a bit unsure now. Would I write {YHWH} or {YHVH} for Yawä? Just to get my texts up to date. I think {יהוה} will not really help ;)

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Hey thought I would let everyone know I will be making a website soon that will be showing other our progress here, sharing about Jesus and listing any new words we might come up with in Na'vi for the Bible.
Marvellous. Maybe it's worth thinking about joining efforts, as riftmaster said he'd be working on a layout for the bible text and 'Eylan Ayfalulukanä was also doing some work in the direction of how to keep the results together...

Ma 'Eylan Ayfalulukanä:
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We do have a term for 'demon' vrrtep (That and its plural fayvrrtep
I like these words, too. Also krr and trr. Just anythink with double r. And similarly the double l. Just one thing: fayvrrtep is not the plural of vrrtep, but the plural plus (=this). So fayvrrtep would be "these demons" and the plural of vrrtep is just ayvrrtep without "f".

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One name for Jesus I like is 'Lion of the Tribe of Judah' or possibly Palulukanru olo'ri a{Judah}
I think it would rather be something like Palulukan olo'yä le{Judah}. "a" goes only with Adjectives. In order to make a noun (like a name) into an Adjective, you put "le" in front of it. Then, if it follows the described noun (olo'yä here) you don't have to use another "a", because the "le" makes clear it's an Adjective. Only if you say Palulukan le{Judah}a olo'yä you have to append the "a", as it is on the opposite side of "le" and the marker has to be on the same side with the noun. I know the term as Lion of Judah, so that would leave the olo' out (and I'm never sure if there is a difference between clan and tribe): Palulukan {Judah}yä or {Judah}yä Palulukan.
Btw, I like the idea of using animal names of Na'vi fauna, as it would be closer to the Pandore feeling and there will never be a word for a real lion I guess... Would Toruk be something like Leviathan? But Toruk is positive in Na'vi culture I think, so it would not be wise to connect it with negative Leviathan I think.

Ma Letxepa tirea
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Solomon-yä ay-lì’u a-txantslusam. Solomon-yä sempul lamu David ulte David l<am>u Israel-yä eyktan.
Nice. I always thought the king of Israel means here Solomon, but yes, both were Israel's kings. But this is really nice language: Easy, short sentences that show one does not always need complicated sentence structures to express things. I like that style. Like the rest of your work. I really like it.

Okay, I'm getting tired now and I think I have already written enough for today ;D I'll finish psalm 2 the next days and then review my psalms so far again, as I think there need to be some updates again...

Kìyevame!
srungìri ftära tsyokxìl ngeyä
ke ivomum futa pesuru
lu srung skiena tsyokxta ngeyä
ulte Jesus a nerìn ayfo pamlltxe
san sutehu lu keltsun
slä Yawähu frakem tsunslu sìk.

Offline Col Quaritch

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #156 on: March 25, 2010, 03:23:43 pm »
Alìm Tsamsiyu Irayo (hope that’s right for thank you) I sometimes take my work allot to heart and even in my own posting here I admitted I’m a baby in Na’vi I should take your critique better. (NIV) Proverbs 1:5 let the wise listen and add to their learning, and let the discerning get guidance-- You are just what we said we have needed all along someone that understand the language and can help us with our translations and work. So if anyone is owing apology it is I to you, and I’m sorry for reacting the way I did.
As the team leader of this project I need to make some decisions and I have come to one after reading many other post and private message I have received. Yawä is no longer a good and useable word for our Lord and God. So we are left with two choices either stay with all names and holy titles as is or as suggestion by two others and Alim we phonetically spell them in Na’vi. I have the feeling that this will be the case for many new words we will have to make to complete this project, or till such time as Dr Frommer release more words that will aid us. I want to hear everyone involved on this project feedback concerning the two possible ways of dealing with names please limit it to Pm’s no need to clutter up posting here with such till needed to. I will be praying on the matter to ask for guidance in this matter.
Once before it was suggested we all get on some sort of chat such to all be on same time, I know very little about Skype any info you have please share with us. I was told its pay as you go that is all I know of it or so told of it.  I believe at least once a week the whole Bible in Na’vi project team get into one of these chats and learn something even if one thing.  I believe it will help us grow as a fellowship as well.
Alim I am making a formal request you be our teacher of Na’vi and our proof reader for this project. It’s my desire to make the most accurate translation possible into the Na’vi language and more importantly to glorify my Lord and Savior. 
As to translations I urge everyone to use what you are comfortable with but after Prayer and wearing out my knees and my own research the KJV as beautiful as it is dose have concepts and ideas that are not relevant today’s times so imagine trying  to make the relevant into this new language we are attempting.  I wish to urge each of you that even though Na’vi is not a real people that you take the making of this project as serious as you would translating it for a group that never had the Word available to them before.  (GW) Mark 16:15 then Jesus said to them, "So wherever you go in the world, tell everyone the Good News.
Yours in Christ,
Colonel Quaritch


Offline Letxepa tirea

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #157 on: March 25, 2010, 05:14:38 pm »
Ma Tìmuiäyä'itan Irayo fpi ngayä srung.

I was hoping I did alright with that. It was really hard for me to come up with a synonymous statement with "judgment". "Clear choice" seemed to be the closest thing I could find. :-\

Oh I agree that KJV itselfwas beautifully written however I also believe that is a hard text to translate. Here is Psalms 2 in NASB:

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   1Why are the nations in an uproar
         And the peoples devising a vain thing?
    2The kings of the earth take their stand
         And the rulers take counsel together
         Against the LORD and against His Anointed, saying,
    3"Let us tear their fetters apart
         And cast away their cords from us!"
    4He who sits in the heavens laughs,
         The Lord scoffs at them.

I don't know if that will help with a more literal translation or not.

Also I was thinking about the names and such and I remembered that most bibles have notes on the bottom of the page for proper names and etc. So I think we should transliterate(keep the same pronunciation but change the letters from English to Na'vi to match) the names and then have in the notes the meaning of the names.





Oe zola'u, Oe tsole'a, Oe skola'a

Offline Mako

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #158 on: March 25, 2010, 05:41:06 pm »
Also, I am interested in helping with this, but my problem is that I am still learning and would need a karyu at the same time :/

Offline Col Quaritch

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Re: Bible in Na'vi
« Reply #159 on: March 25, 2010, 06:54:00 pm »
Well stay away from Youngs Literal Translation that will make your brain bleed :P

On another note I have skype now, user name is Col-Quaritch should be easy to find some SOB with that name.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 07:01:36 pm by Col Quaritch »


 

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